In the latest podcast, Reynold Hall goes toe to toe with Dustin Segers on scripture. Thanks to Alex, Dustin and Reynold for a great debate.
Listen to Fundamentally Flawed Extra: Dustin Segers and Reynold Hall here.
As well as having direct experience of Dustin’s presuppositional mind games myself, I’ve also read elsewhere on-line that he struggles when it comes to what the bible actually says about lying and, quote, “God’s deluding influence” upon people as a judgement of their actions, when he’s faced with someone who matches his unquestionably thorough knowledge of the bible. What I didn’t expect was for him to fall apart so quickly, when presented with the sorts of mental gymnastics he has to perform in order to dodge certain issues.
We hear more of the same fall-back on “atheists can’t account for absolute morality” when Reynold presses him on this, but to his credit Dustin does give a very well thought out come-back on slavery, for example — and the social context in which those passages of the bible which actively encourage it should be viewed.
Sadly, he immediately cashes-in any points for good effort he might have earned, by doing so in a way which proves beyond doubt that the bible was written by fallible men (while apparently labouring under the illusion he’s actually doing the exact opposite) by asserting that the ultimate message of the New Testament was that it should inform a “new covenant” with God; that it should be viewed as a framework for a “new understanding” of God’s will, and not as an endorsement of bronze-age morality as applied to a modern understanding of ethical issues.
The fact that this perfectly demonstrates exactly what we’ve been saying to Dustin all along, about the fact that we do not need the bible to know right from wrong, because altruism, group solidarity and morality are an emergent property of our evolutionary heritage (which transcends and predates Christianity by several hundred million years) is a point which he seems determined to wilfully ignore — despite our repeated attempts to explain the abundance of evidence that supports it, which we touched upon in a previous podcast, wherein Dustin outlined exactly how little regard he has for evolutionary biology and scientific evidence — presumably because he knows full well what it means for his perennial “God did it” schtick.
It gets better. He digs himself even deeper on the issue of infanticide and genocide. I don’t want to spoil the podcast for you too much, but basically if God says it’s OK, it’s OK. That’s right folks, if the all loving God, Yahweh, decides to arbitrarily break his own rules, then lying, cheating, murder, rape, slavery and genocide are no longer immoral. POOF! Gone, just like that — simply because He deemed them a necessary means to an end. Oh but, by the way, atheists are the ones who espouse moral relativism and are incapable of accounting for their morality, reasoning and logic without being viciously circular.
Keep taking the pills, Dustin. And please, for the sake of humanity, never vote.