10 facts of Darwinian evolution young-earth creationists don’t want to understand

10. Beyond a shadow of doubt, human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% identical. We diverged from the same common ancestor 5 million years ago. This isn’t idle speculation, it is a fact bound up in deductive logic. We are the modern descendants of ancient apes, just as modern apes are the descendants from that same ancestral tree but on a different branch to humans. Just as the VW Beetle is the ancestor of the Porsche Carrera GT, one does not cease to exist because of the emergence of the other. But where car designs are engineered and refined by man, life is shaped by genetic mutations, which over time, gives rise to entirely new species.

9. The genetic evidence of natural selection is compelling enough proof of evolution without any evidence from fossils whatsoever. If Darwin had never lived, we would still have eventually discovered naturally occurring selection mechanisms in our DNA. If there were no fossils in the fossil record, whatsoever, the evidence of evolution in our genes would still be a fact. Genetics does not require the evidence from the fossil record in any way shape or form. Lateral gene transfer is a major mechanism in prokaryotic genome evolution. Gene theory and palaeontology are two completely separate areas of study that just so happen to support each other. Independently acquired, mutually corroborative evidence is the heart and soul of the theory of evolution. To disprove one, you must disprove the other, yet each set of evidences are intrinsically linked, while being independently ascertained.

8. Evolution does not propose origins of life. Evolution does not seek to answer the question of how the first multicellular organisms appeared. It describes how they evolved once they formed, not how they formed in the first place. Abiogenesis is in no way related to Darwinian evolution. We do not know how the first multicellular life formed, but we know what it was made of and that these elements were abundant on the early Earth, after it formed 4.54 billion years ago*, and that these same elements are present throughout the universe today. The vast timescales involved aren’t easy to comprehend. But admitting you do not understand something, in science, is the only way to find out.

7. “Survival of the fittest” is NOT the guiding principal of individual behaviour. It is the biological mechanism which determines the adaptability of a species over time, NOT individuals within their own lifetime. Evolution happens gradually over hundreds of millions of years. Random mutations in the DNA code do not always produce positive results. Mutations are not always beneficial because evolution is unguided; it has no foresight. Natural selection builds upon mutations that produce adaptations which are beneficial in specific areas, just as it cancels out mutations that are detrimental in others. This explains why 99% of all life that has ever lived on Earth is now extinct.

6. Not a single living organism that has ever been discovered shows any sign, whatsoever, of having evolved by non-Darwinian means. If there were, the scientific method is precisely designed to discover it. There are no known species of any living organism anywhere on Earth that can not be fully described by evolution theory. The only people who assert otherwise are religious fundamentalists who have repeatedly demonstrated they do not understand how Darwinian evolution by means of natural selection actually works. Hence it is illegal in almost every industrialised nation on Earth to teach creationism in the science classroom.

5. Darwinism when applied to free market economics, is a flawed form of capitalism and gives rise to a supreme irony. Free market theory has been shown time and again to favour the rich to the detriment of the poor. Every single European and American government who has applied Darwinism to their economic policy, has been forced, at some point, to apply regulations to the market, so as to counterbalance this unwanted effect. Despite this, in the American system of governance, free market ultra-capitalism remains to be the fundamental ideological difference between predominantly evangelical smaller state conservatives, who favour it, and predominantly non-religious liberal democrats who oppose it. Darwinian economics is synonymous with conservatism, not liberalism.

4. The vast majority of evolutionary biologists are practising Christians. Indeed the only group among scientists who profess higher religiosity than biologists are physicists. The official dogma of the Catholic church is that “evolution theory is not incompatible with a belief in the bible”. The only quasi-religious sect which does not accept the facts of evolution, are classified by the International Cultic Studies Association as “cults with authoritarian, exploitative and possibly dangerous systems of ritual practices”. This includes the deliberate obfuscation of facts so as to indoctrinate children and vulnerable or credulous adults. Hence, young-earth creationists, even within Protestant evangelicalism, make up less than 3% of those who otherwise describe themselves as bible believing Christians worldwide. EDIT: Please read comments

3. Darwin was wrong about a great many things. As were many of the people who supported his theory when it was first published. There are examples throughout history of scientists making huge mistakes which have led science down blind alleys of investigation, sometimes for hundreds of years. But the beauty of the scientific method, is that these mistakes always come to light. Darwin did not set his theories in stone, rather he hoped that future generations of naturalists would DISPROVE his many claims. Since then, this is what biologists, palaeontologists, geneticists, chemists, anthropologists and every other discipline in science has sought to achieve. We have yet to find any compelling evidence that might falsify any aspect of natural selection, despite that the scientific method is geared towards doing exactly that.

2. Evolutionary biologists like Richard Dawkins are not the atheist’s Jesus. They are men with opinions of their own. Nothing more, nothing less. Some of their opinions are based upon irrefutable facts and some are not. Atheism and science are not two sides of the same coin, nor do individual scientists who happen to be non-religious speak on behalf of all agnostics, rationalists, free thinkers, humanists or pastafarians worldwide. Science and scientists are two completely different things, just as are what you believe and what you can prove. If you believe in things that you can not prove, that does not constitute a reason for others to do the same.

1. Abandoning reason and fair mindedness does not bring you closer to Jesus. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the light.” By that light many of humanity’s finest thinkers have discovered the mechanisms by which the world works. Darwin himself was a devout Christian. And while it is true he lost his faith because of a series of tragedies in his personal life, he never ceased to believe that God may exist. He did not become agnostic because he established the most important principal in science, nor did he lose his faith because he gained reason. He woke up to the reality of the majestic universe and abandoned childish notions, which seek to divide people between faith and facts. Faith is a virtue, but so is humility. And nothing is more humbling than the glimpse into the grandeur of nature upon which Darwin’s theory casts such brilliant illumination.

“I don’t want to believe, I want to know” – Carl Sagan.

But by far the greatest distortion of evolution that creationists wilfully and repeatedly proffer, is that it formed the basis of Nazi eugenics, which is the most evil form of artificial selection ever devised. The only people who assert a link between the heinous acts of mass genocide, carried out by Hitler and Darwin’s ideas, are those who, despite that Darwin wrote at length about his fears that his theory would be used in this way, repeatedly misrepresent what Darwin actually had to say about this matter, when he pre-emptively spoke out strongly against any attempts to apply his theory to fix the societal issues of his day.

But because creationists only listen to each other, the only time this fact is alluded to, in creationist propaganda, it is in an edited format, taken from Darwin’s original text. In one version, used in a pro-Intelligent Design film by Mark Mathis, “Expelled” and despite that the filmmaker had the full unedited text from Darwin’s “Decent of Man” available to him, the text appears to endorse the subduing of inferior minded people. In another form it appears to suggest Darwin himself believed this was some way forward for his theory in terms of improving the human condition, by breeding mental frailties and physical disabilities out of the human race. These various perversions of what Darwin actually wrote, which are hosted widely on pro-creationist websites such as answersingenesis.org and Ray Comfort’s Way of the Master blog, are the version of Darwin’s original text almost all fundamentalists believe to have been taken, word for word, from Darwin’s work, when in reality he said something quite the opposite.

Here is exactly what Darwin wrote in “Decent of Man”, followed by the text as it appears in the pro-Intelligent Design film, “Expelled”:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed

And now the edited version, popular on pro-creationist websites:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.


*The original version of this article incorrectly used the age of the universe as the age of the Earth. I pieced this article together from drafts of my soon-to-be realised donation-ware book and inadvertently cut and paste the wrong paragraph. Oops!

205 comments on “10 facts of Darwinian evolution young-earth creationists don’t want to understand

  1. clip from wikipedia

    The age of the Earth is around 4.54 billion years (4.54 × 109 years ± 1%).[1][2][3] This age has been determined by radiometric age dating of meteorite material and is consistent with the ages of the oldest-known terrestrial and lunar samples.

    annyway, good work :-)

  2. Michael: If you think Joker Joe is smart enough to figure that one out, you’re crediting him with more intelligence than he’s capable. I thought about re-uploading it when I realised I was logged in as the wrong user, but Larry is purely there to punk Joe, so figured no harm since he doesn’t follow MovingToMontana anyway.

    By the way, Joe is currently trying to get me to read Luke 3 and work out why it makes it OK to lie about how many atheists he’s met who “think life came from nothing”, so you might want to stay tuned to @LarryLovesJesus and watch Joe squirm his way out of answering any serious questions again.

  3. Interesting article. I’m curious as to where you got the information to be able to state: “Indeed the only group among scientists who profess higher religiosity than biologists are physicists.”

    I am a physicist and would have to strongly disagree with that statement based on my experience.

  4. You can be deluded if you want, but if you want to quote Jesus, quote him right. He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” He is the life – the source of all life. Elsewhere he is referred to as the light, but in your quote you had it wrong.

    You can rationalize all you want. Darwinian evolution is theory. THEORY, not fact. Adaptation is not the same as evolution.

  5. @ Umm – No.

    The word ‘theory’ has a very specific meaning in a scientific context.

    In everyday use, ‘theory’ usually means a guess or a hunch, something that maybe needs proof.

    In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It’s a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.

  6. @ John

    I’m also curious as to where he got the information for #4. I’ve heard the exact opposite (though I’m not in any scientific field). In my experience, the people I know or have known that even show any keen interests in biology and/or physics are the least religious people I’ve ever met.

  7. @Derek

    I was surprised to find that too, but Dawkins has mentioned this statistic on a number of occasions, most notably in a debate with Alister McGrath, which I think you should easily find on YouTube

  8. @ Jim Gardner

    Unfortunately, I don’t currently have access to YouTube to watch that long debate and listen carefully for Dawkins to say that, nor can I find a transcript of the debate online. It makes no sense that Dawkins would ever say anything like that, ever.

    In searching for “vast majority of evolutionary biologists are practising Christians” I came across a site about Phillip E. Johnson, who is considered the father of Intelligent Design. Even HE states that he thinks most evolutionary biologists are atheists, as they rightfully should be if they take their scientific beliefs seriously. [Source: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/johnsonp.html%5D
    Of course, he also thinks America needs more Christians to tell Muslims to gtfo and that AIDS isn’t a product of HIV.

    Anyway, I’ve been searching for about an hour online and I can’t find anything stating that most evolutionary biologists are practising Christians, or that they even believe in a god.

  9. I admit I am also puzzled by #4. I’m a biologist and I don’t think I’ve run into a practicing Christian in my colleagues in almost 20 years. Many instead are outspoken atheists.

    The 1998 survey of NAS members reported in Nature put the number of theist biologists at 5.5%. This was the lowest percentage of any group of scientist. Pretty much getting told by fundies over and over again that you can’t be a Christian and believe in evolution, pushes you to take a stance that other scientists aren’t prompted to make

  10. I wouldn’t want to come across as sounding like I’m above holding my hands up here, if I’ve got something wrong. I do remember being taken back by this when I heard it at the time, but I’m having a similar problem finding a source as Derek.

    It’s entirely possible I’ve just remembered this wrong or mixed it up with some other similar nugget drifting around my brain. I’ll insert an edit on #4 pointing to the comments.

  11. Does nto surprise me in the least that this article is already falling apart with a number of errors. Jesus is the way…and unfortunately too many people will find that out the hard way.

  12. @fgitl
    don’t see any errors here that make the core fact wrong, we disagree about if most biologist is christian or atheist, what doesn’t tell anything about if the evolution theory is wrong or not.

    and that just one thing we are disagree about, not multiply things, if you have something concrete so come whit it, and don’t make something up because you cant deal whit facts.

  13. @FGITL

    Any argument that depends on the death of the observer to prove your point, is dredging the depths of absurdity and entirely without merit.

  14. I found this on a pro-God website. It does reference a published study-Ecklund, E. H. and C. P. Scheitle. 2007. Religion among Academic Scientists: Distinctions, Disciplines, and Demographics.

    Elaine Ecklund, and Christopher Scheitle questioned 2,198 faculty members in the disciplines of physics, chemistry, biology, sociology, economics, political science, and psychology from 21 elite U.S. research universities.4 Overall, 75% of professors contacted completed the survey. Among the different disciplines, disbelief in the existence of God was not correlated with any particular area of expertise:
    Disbelief in God by Academics4 Discipline %
    Physics 40.8
    Chemistry 26.6
    Biology 41.0
    Overall 37.6
    Sociology 34.0
    Economics 31.7
    Political Science 27.0
    Psychology 33.0
    Overall 31.2

    I also found this article, which does not seem to bode well for the theory that theism or Christianity is particularly high within the life sciences. My anecdotal observation is that of all people within scientific disciplines, those who use the term “engineer” in their title are usually the most God friendly, although I regularly read a blog by a very religious physicist.

  15. evolutionists are the new pagans. THEY WORSHIP THE UNIVERSE, WE WORSHIP THE GUY WHO MADE IT. REPENT OF YOUR DELUSIONS RIGHT NOW AND ASK JESUS TO FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR ERRORS. HE WILL. THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE. AND WHEN YOU KNOW THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU FREE

    IN THE BEGINNING, GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH.

  16. The idae that your god is real is based on your own perseption of the world. A perseption that is based on a simple book writen in the middle east.The the world that you percive is a one dimentinol world were only those how folow your god are good and all others must be evil

  17. It seems baptism involves inserting a very thin and pointy crucifix through the eyesocket and wiggling it about a bit, judging by “JESUS IS LORD”.

  18. Just wondering if you had seen the clip of Bill Maher where Christine O’Donnell (a neocon Teaparty recently elected Senator) says “Evolution is a myth”

  19. I haven’t seen it Kaybee322, but I love how these people have to borrow the language of their critics in a desperate bid to sound like they know what they’re talking about.

    By the way, if these people do achieve their ultimate goal of turning the whole of America into a nation of imbecilic bible freaks, Britain’s doors are open to all you non-mentally ill Yanks. Just promise you’ll learn to spell Colour and Aluminium properly and we’ll forget all about the whole George Washington thing.

  20. Your article is accuate and well written,too bad it won’t make a bit of difference to those who parrot one of the Creationist mantras. Those ignorant jagoffs would’nt know a scientific fact if they tripped over one. Thank goodness we have the FACTS AND LAW on our side.

  21. This is indeed a very well written piece of material. I was looking for something that would inform me of evolutionary beliefs and this certainly did the job. However, i do have a few questions, you wright about a great many ideas that that seem good and dependable but very few facts are presented. Yes are DNA is 98 percent identical to that of apes, but that fact in itself means nothing. It seems to be only an odd coincidence. Any one with an education knows that micro-evolution occurs regularly so when you wright of the “naturally occurring selection mechanisms in our DNA” you are exactly right that does happen, but it does not in anyway prove macro-evolution. Macro-evolution (in case you have not heard the term before) is evolution out side a species or mutations from one species to another. Micro-evolution occurs within a species, this is what Darwin witnessed in the finches he studied. There is no evidence of macro-evolution in our DNA code whatsoever that is a simple fact, there is of course an abundance of evidence for micro-evolution so in that aspect you are correct. My point is this, there is very little evidence presented in this post, if one already believes in evolution this is of course already their accepted doctrine but to someone who has heard the other side of the story this post offers no convincing. I wish in no way to insult, it is simply obvious that the evolution theory has many unanswered questions and makes many claims that it cannot support. I encourage you to look at the other side of things, an individual cannot claim to be truly knowledgeable until they have encompassed with their mind the entirety of a subject. I assure you they are not all “cults with authoritarian, exploitative and possibly dangerous systems of ritual practices”.

  22. Russdot’s YouTube link is a good place to start, William. Also, note that the terms “Macro evolution” and “Micro evolution” are only ever used in creationist literature. That is to say there really isn’t any such delineation in actual science between the way microorganisms evolve and the way natural selection works in the rest of the plant and animal kingdom. In reality, this apparent differentiation between macro and micro only ever appears in a pro-creationist context.

    As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, this began happening somewhere around the time organisations like The Discovery Institute (TDI) were forced to admit, as a result of losing a series of highly damaging legal cases, that they didn’t actually have any positive evidence in support of, so called, Intelligent Design.

    As a result of this, TDI had no choice but to adopt an alternative strategy; appearing to accept the evidence of evolution up to a certain point, so that—as The Wedge Strategy dictates—they could then attempt to enter into further litigation, which might once again attempt to present the case that, contrary to the findings of previous rulings, they do in fact adopt a scientific approach—despite that it has been repeatedly shown they do not.

    Finally, it is not a matter of “believing in evolution”. It is matter of accepting the overwhelming evidence of evolution. There is no “belief” required—only evidence.

    Yes, there is much still to be learned about many thousands of organisms; but there is not a single scientist who works in legitimate areas of research, who doesn’t welcome this fact. This idea that the “scientific establishment” only wish to present their side of the story, when it comes to describing the natural world, is a complete fabrication—itself a facet of the Wedge Strategy and other pro-creationist documentation—delibartely designed to create the appearance of a controversy where in fact none exists. Answers in Genesis are more often than not the source of this misinformation, but it is also a popular tactic among a class of conservative politicians, who seek the support of low information voters.

    Please feel free to ask any specific questions you might have, relating to your claim that “it is simply obvious that the evolution theory has many unanswered questions and makes many claims that it cannot support”.

    I hope that helps to clear some things up.

  23. darwin was wrong about many things. so are many scientist before and after him.:First they say these are the facts then oops we were wrong again, but this time we got right. ooops wrong again ,but now we really have it right. on and on again.they try to make the evidence fit their theories.just like the ways they try to date fossils or rocks or whatever. just keep changing the assumptions until it fits their theories.

  24. Let’s sum up this article:

    “Creationists are ignorant and…”

    No, guess we can strike out that ‘and’. Basically those first three words provide a fairly accurate summary here.

    However, while taking an undergraduate-level Biology course, I began to question all that I had been taught on evolution. I don’t know if you would say I’m solidly in the Creation camp because I actually believe that science backs up many of the creation arguments. I see this more in terms of a Venn diagram. You have two circles overlapping. The intersection of the two sets would include those who accept that science validates the creation theory. The symmetric difference of the set would be those Creationists who scoff at science as well as Evolutionists who refuse to accept the possibility of intelligent design. In fact, some of those on the evolution side will use an example such as “just as modern apes are the descendants from that same ancestral tree but on a different branch to humans. Just as the VW Beetle is the ancestor of the Porsche Carrera GT, one does not cease to exist because of the emergence of the other” not realizing that they are actually setting up a great argument pointing toward creation science! The VW and the Porsche had a creator. In fact, many cars share many of the same elements simply because their creator knows what works. Oh sure, superficially they have differences but, internally they contain the same basic components.

    Yes, there are facts regarding evolution. No argument from me there. They just point solidly to a creator. If you are talking about the ‘common descent’ theory, not buying into it. I think we’ve seen enough proof to toss out common descent.

    By the way, just based on a comment here, the first time I heard the words micro- and macro-evolution were in a graduate level biogeography course at the State University I attended. The Professor who was in the evolution camp discussed why micro-evolution was fact and discussed macro-evolution as theory but one she believed would one day soon be ‘fact’.

    Just stumbled across this and thought I’d leave a note.

  25. If your fact is right then why 2% difference between us and apes are making all the difference as we are now and they are not even o.ooooooooooooooooooo1% close to us (I mean socially). Another questions, where the enzymes or catalysts come from, as evolution takes time, and only there should be some one to introduce a catalyst which make reaction fast otherwise 1 g of urea to make urine will take millions of years without the catalyst. We also do not know if sun is also revolving around some bigger object or it is stationary. All are just theory. Nothing has been proven. The more we dig, more and huge fossils come around and the life on earth goes back to billion of years…

  26. Pingback: What is it with Humans and their Gods/Deities? - Page 8 - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums

  27. Mankind has the intelligence to ponder about creation. Why not use this intellect to study the evolution theory instead of dismissing interesting facts (like chimpanzee DNA being 98% like ours) as coincidences. I am not an atheist but don’t accept things without logic and reasoning. Faith is totally blind and get all their arguments from books and word of mouth. To me believing in a punishing GOD who just wants his creation to submit to him makes more human than GOD. He has an EGO and a personality. A loving GOD is more acceptable to me rather than a repentance BEGGING, PRAYER enforcing, Fire BURNING selfish GOD.

  28. @ Hassan
    Although your comment is highly irrelevant to the post, Let me tell you something. God is extremely merciful to those who do believe in Him. He loves those who live their life in good values and morals and do not consider living their lives like pigs. You wont believe in that because thats something that you’ve probably never experienced. But for those of us who do believe in God, we’ve seen things work out for us in a way that it only seems fair to conclude that theres some external force behind it. Just because you live a sad and a miserble life without any trace of hope does not mean that you start saying that God is vengeful. Unless and until you dont try something or give it a chance, you’d never find out. It sucks that you’re way too dimwitted to comprehend certain things and if you cant find answers, you start thinking that those things dont even exist. None of you are scientists here, you’re simply blind fools.

  29. One thing people darwins book was called “the orgin of species” not “the orgin of all living things” and i do believe he was a christian. (look it up) sence his time though I do believe the argument has gotten a little on the “TO BIG TO BE PROVEN RIGHT, TO BIG TO BE PROVEN WRONG” I am not going to say wether I am pro or con but I will state that I think either way is rubish. Anyone looked into any other way we could have come to be here. And for that matter did dragons really live with man? that has puzzled me for awhile. Paintings on caves tell that indians/natives fought and killes dragons. I mean what did they think “OH SOME DAY THIS WILL REALLY FREAK PEOPLE OUT???”
    So look up some stuff I don’t really have time but I will be using your article in a progect I am doing for evolution vs creation.
    THANKS

  30. The theory of macro evolution is entirely based on reckless assumption, not hard empirical data. It is in fact a materialistic philosophy.
    -The only person on this blog who holds a degree in Cellular and Molecular Biology.

  31. I like to think that most people who post comments on these sites are of a certain intelligence ! What I find quite unbelievable about some comments are ….. The bible is a simple book written in the Middle East ….. Genesis ,(if you believe the bible is a simple book) is a strange way to make up a story , myth ….what ever you want to call it , the bible says that God made us from the earth and to survive on this planet we have to be part of what makes it a living planet , part of the Eco system …. So our DNA being 98 percent identical to apes is perfectly logical but there is no proof that we came from apes . I have a mind of my own and people like Richard Dawkins who tell me there is no God are just as bad as religious people who tell me I will go to hell , We can all have theories !

  32. I agree. Those who think the Bible is a simple book have no grounds to make such a comment, and they do not know the history behind it. The Bible is made up of 66 books written by 40 authors over a span of more then 1500 years. Many of these authors never lived on earth at the same time, yet they still write about many events that occured outside of their own life time and with great detail. There are also numerous historical documents outside the Bible that record many of the same charactors and events mentioned in the Bible. All of this is based on facts, not belief.
    With regards to determining the age of the earth, I think we will never really know. We can use radiometric age dating and carbon dating which may very well be accurate, but for those who understand this earth to be created by a creator will know that this earth, acording to the Bible, was created with age. God did not plant seeds, he created trees, with growth rings. God did not grow semen and eggs in an incubator for nine months, he created Adam as a man, not a featus.
    One last thing. Why are all the calanders on earth less then 6000 years old?

  33. if Man is to work for 6 days and rest on the 7th, and we have ruled our world for 6000 years dose this mean that God will rule it for the 7th 1000 years just a thought?

  34. @Ricky the thing I think YOU fail to understand about the bible is that people have more logic, reasoning, and general knowledge of the world around them than they did at that time in history. Example: Soddom and Gammora (don’t think i spelled those correctly). were two cities that were destroyed. If they were destroyed by say… a meteor, a fire, or some other natural or man-made disaster (not knowing anything of science or how nature works), mankind would explain these events in the only way that made sense, Divinity. When similar events happen in modern times like for example: Hurricane Katrina, we can explain this hurricane with science. We don’t say god destroyed New Orleans because he hates Jazz music. Also, just because someone wrote it down years ago doesn’t make it fact. Not to mention all the editing that was probably done throughout the history of the bible by the catholic church. Homer wrote The Illiad and the Oddysey but we don’t consider these 100% fact. As for your argument on the calenders, When ancient (Precivilization) mankind was running from predators and spending every moment of their time trying to survive I doubt they ever thought “gee it would be nice to organize a complex system of measuring time flow between seasons”. One last thought… Christianity is not the first religion of mankind even though the bible has the story of the first humans adam and eve. At what point did they switch to paganism?

  35. Fascinating that this discussion started almost three years ago. The more I read/hear from religious folks, the more I am siding with science. These people present no real evidence other tthan an edited book written many centuries ago. What about the disregarded versions of the bible, and “lost” books that would contradict the King James version.
    Scientists are still working on evolution and making findings, the Bible(s) are stagnant, and just to ask us to take things on faith is simply childish. People used to take it on faith that Zeus existed, I think we can agree that mythology does not equal reality, only a good story to explain the world without evidence.

  36. well ok of course we share a ton of DNA, there are only 4 bases! saying its 98% the same doesn’t mean squat

  37. Not a scientist, but I really do find that there is a certain facade in the United States concerning the “absolute impossibility” of intelligent design. Science always is supposed to ask more questions than it answers because of the scientific method calling for analysis, theorem, and conclusion questioning; I go to places like the Field Museum in Chicago and I am baffled by the number of assumptions presented as facts. It is a selling point, I get it, but they are deceptive selling points. Lucy was supposed to be the missing link and is composed of six nearly unidentifiable facial bones from more than one source and an artist rendering. It was a forensic artist, but they only do the best they can with what they are given. I respect scientists who are skeptical of any conclusion that they don’t have their hands on. I am also a Christian, but that has nothing to do with science, or with a sense of moral guilt, but because I have experienced Christ as Savior in my life. My skeptical side questions people even in the Bible scholarship field who discount things like giants when there is so much historical record that giants existed. I hope I didn’t lose anyone on that. History and science are not based on the same principles and I can’t verify or deny that giants existed. I just find it hard to believe that ancient things written as fact with support from several sources are immediately discounted due to being remarkably different from what we know. Many people trying to defend Christianity do the same thing. Assumptions are heresy in both science and religion, and human vanity is the source of them.

  38. This man is an idiot.. Yes we evolved, but the Bible says nothing of that. The Bible also has no science in it either.

  39. Also, for the record, Darwin wasn’t a Christian. His wife was, but Darwin renounced it. He had discovered evolution and that destroyed the Bible’s account of life here on Earth. He was agnostic towards the idea of God and I understand why.

  40. Wow it amazes me that people are commenting on this even though the article is 3 yrs old.
    Anyways I would like to point out a few flaws for anyone who stumbles across this page. The main thing that jumped out at me, was there is no sourcing no citing of resources, no books, documentaries, nothing to back this mans thoughts. He seems to just be spitting out opinions and expecting us to accept it. The whole chimp thing is just absurd in my mind. Did they not find that bananas also share our DNA?
    (ec.europa.eu/…/leaflet_dnabananas.pdf)
    Sooo does that mean we are part banana? Anyhow I dont want to spend my time on an old article I just wish people would research both sides and try, as hard as it may be, to find solid facts and not opinion based articles such as this. There are some pretty bitter and hate filled comments from the pro evolution people. As well as the Christians that make the rest of us look like wackos, so maybe for future readers, keep that in mind and decide for yourself. But belittling the other side to make your side sound right is pretty pathetic in my mind

  41. Chevelle SS
    I stopped commenting on older articles about 6 months ago, because it was becoming a soap opera, and a full time job to keep up with the various in’s and out’s. But because this thread in particular remains so popular, with many people still subscribed via RSS and Email notifications, I couldn’t let some of the things in your reply go unchallenged.

    Firstly, I didn’t write the original article as a doctoral dissertation; and although I agree it would have been more useful if it contained a few more links and citations, most of the stuff you refer to as ‘opinion’ is well within the scientific consensus, and easily available from all the usual sources of information on-line.

    Secondly, please don’t mistake legitimate criticism of the other ‘side’ as merely ‘belittling’ their beliefs. The argument against the sort of people who defend anti-science, in the belief that it is their religious duty to do so, is a far more focused and determined effort than simple name calling — it’s an all out offensive on one of the most sinister and poisonous campaigns of misinformation public education has ever suffered, it is global, and it is being fought for nothing less than in defence of the truth, and our basic human right to teach the truth to our children.

    Once upon a time, these were the sorts of values which the Christian faith at least pretended to care about and sought to defend. That we now find ourselves in a world where the opposite is true, should be of as much concern to majority of well meaning religious as it is to everyone else.

  42. Chapter Six. Prehistory p.102

    I. The “Creation versus Evolution” Controversy; or:
    “Much Ado About Nothing”
    II. The Methods Utilized in Divine Creation:
    A. Evolution
    B. Catastrophism
    C. Direct Divine Intervention

    Chapter Seven. Past History: The World System p.145

    I. The Material System
    A. The Origin of the Material System
    B. The True Purpose of the Material System
    II. The Religious System
    A. The Source of Religion
    B. The World’s Religions
    C. The Jewish Religion
    D. Christianity, the Religion

    From: amessageforthehumanrace

  43. Wow. But with all due respect the number where it “explains” why 99% of all species died wouldn’t The Flood explain that also? And ALL recorded mutations have been negative with maybe one positive thing that is totally useless. So how would life continue? And explain to me why WHY we don’t see monkeys becoming humans today or why we don’t see lizards turning into birds? I would also like for u to LOGICALLY explain how a goddamned fish could suddenly crawl out of the water and become a land animal if it dodo that It would have DIED.

  44. People get confused with the facts cos they have already made their minds up!
    This so called observations which support the evolution Theory, how can this be plausible as you cannot observe evolution.

    All good ideas, but all evidence do not make EVOLUTION theory a FACT and this is a FACT. Sound like a bunch of Atheists!

  45. The only real bone that I have to pick is when the author states,” Faith is a virtue. So is humility.” He’s half right. The very definition of faith is believing in something without having any reason or evidence to do so. The second half of his observation does seem irrefutable.

  46. Dear Chris, you also couldn’t have observed Jesus either. The you-can’t-observe-the-past argument presented by creationists falls into the world of stupid faster than a black hole swallows matter and light.

  47. I think after reading these blogs that I myself still believe in God and that no matter what people think that God made man no apes to over time form into humans. I also think that if one is right with God that no one would think that . God is almighty and he will return one day I just hope that everyone is ready.

  48. I counted the number of “facts” presented in this article. It amounted to only a few. The rest was just fluff. Just another dick who likes to pretend he knows science.

  49. I am an atheist but I believe god is alive and well. I base this belief on the number of ongoing global conflicts in the world at this time of which most involve religious differences. Yup, God is alive and well!

    I saw a humorous bumper sticker the other day on a truck that also sported a Army sticker. The quote: “Evolution is a myth”. . . . Onward Christian soldiers! LOL!

  50. No evidence of Darwinian evolution (macroevolution). All of Gods Creation has abilities to adapt, this is not evolution. Comon people!!! The irony of an atheist calling a Christian ignorant is very funny, we know & learn both sides of worldviews, who is ignorant? You calling the Bible a simple book is the ultimate in ignorance, the Bible speaks of the earth as a sphere long before science knew it, it mentions the hydrogic system again long before science had a clue. The Bible says that the earth rotates thousands of years ago, are we not made of dust? If you say that the King James Bible has been wrongly interpreted & edited you are again ignorant of fact, don’t you want to know the truth? Hey, if you dont want to believe in God the Creator that your freewilll to do so, but don’t lie about it. If you insist on believing that our beautiful, finely tuned universe just magically exploded from nothing, breaking the 1st & 2nd Laws of Jesus a chance then you do not know the Truth.Thermodynamics, again your freewill. I know a lot of you know just how finely created our universe is…just be honest & admit that you would rather be the god of your life & do whatever you want like masturbating to runaway, drug addicted young girls on your devise. If you have not given

  51. You still failed to give us any scientific proof of this. Instead it’s more theories! Nothing cannot explode! Because nothing does not exist! I cannot believe you people still believe that nothing explodes! Common give us the scientific proof of this nothing that explodes. That’s right you can’t cause there aren’t any proof! Believe in God or don’t but stop telling lies and theories that is bollocks!

  52. Let me explain why Evolution is theory&not fact…….it’s really an elementary principle that proves my grand claim,&one needs look no further! No one opposes gravity,because you can see the effects of gravity all around you on a daily basis! If someone disbelieves,simply drop a large stone on their foot……PROBLEM SOLVED! But EVOLUTION is not questioned or disbelieved by a few hundred or even several thousand people but,by tens of millions& many of those are scientist&molecular bioligist……the numbers of disbelievers in the Evolutionary THEORY(and it is only a theory)are staggering! Less than half of America Believes in evolution…..but in one source I found that over 60% of people believe internationally……so it appears that only 10% more than half of the world believes in Evolution(at least those who are recorded)so again,it stands to reason,that if the theory were a proven fact…..this website wouldn’t even need to be here&if evolution wasn’t such a loosely thrown together theory,that seems so unstable(as everyone knows….evolutionary ideas are of themselves evolving all the time)there wouldn’t be such staggering numbers of the earths population who question&disbelieve this THEORY!!

  53. The only two things I have to say is that recent studies have shown chimpanzee and human DNA to be closer to 93-94% identical, and under number six you haven’t mentioned the Cambrian explosion, which is seen as a huge exception to that rule (Google it). However, I don’t think you should be setting these in solid stone. Just a few hundred years ago the idea of spontaneous generation was seen as more of a fact than evolution is today, and by now it has been blatantly disproven by Pasteur.
    Also, I can tell that you wrote this article very carefully to satisfy both Christians like myself and Darwinists. Good job, but there’s still gonna be religious debates in the comments.

  54. You bunch of evolutionists only cite what your scientists say. Poof! Man is fallible unless guided by God! P.S. And learn to get your spelling right! Cheers! :)

  55. So what if we are 98% apes? Who says so? Science? lol. So of the 2% we are not apes we can talk, reason, have a conscience, etc. Man, all you evolutionists get your facts right before you start spouting rubbish!

  56. Please just delete this blog, it mislead people, we never evolved from apes, we are created by God himself! there are so many facts out there that the bible is true you just need to look, I advise you to go read the bible and find the Lord before it is to late.

    and by the way: the big bang never happend.

  57. @ idar

    I pity you and i weep for the human race, idiots like you dont deserve to be apart of our civilization. There are hardly any facts supporting the God theory, as opposed to evolution and big bang, in which there are overwhelming facts and evidence supporting them.

    You don’t seem to see the hipocracy in your argument. You are stating that we never evolved from apes and that we are created by God himself and that the big bang never happened… all this despite the overwhelming evidence against your argument, you really are an ignorant or perhaps insane? deluded idiot.

    You idiots need to realize that God IS A THEORY NOT A FACT! I dont even think it classifies as a theory it is that ridiculous, hardly and evidence to confirm it as a theory, but unfortunately idiots like you will never cease to exist (i hope i am very wrong). And i suppose without dumb people (creationists), there can never be smart people (atheists).

    I imagine all the religious idiots didnt even read through all this cause it was ‘too much info’ for their peasant brains to understand so i’m going to assume that only smart people read this and will give me a thumbs up….lets find out shall we?

  58. “A Smart Logical Thinker”: Not much evident in your post. Or do you have more hidden somewhere? I say its thinking like yours “idiots like you dont deserve to be apart of our civilization” that is the genesis of much evil.

    You would be well served to control your darkness. Who are YOU to decide Sir?

    Lets see some logical thought…come on..lets see it.

    You give rational people a bad name.

  59. Guys this is ridiculous. Evolution has been proven wrong time and time again while creation has not. I read this entire article, gathered all the information, and taken notes. I have researched evolution from beginning to end. All I see is somehow billions of years ago a few cells came from nowhere and created this universe through an explosion. If I broke my computer in, attached an explosive to it, and blew the pieces up, would it recreate my computer? NO!!!

    Look at evolution`s many hoaxes, Piltdown man`s skull was found to be human while its jaw was an orangutan`s. Both the human`s skull and the jaw had been chemically stained to make them look older, and the teeth and jaw had been filed to make it look more humanlike. The file marks could easily be seen. In 1927, a tooth was found in Nebraska. Evolutionists said that it was our evolutionary ancestor, Nebraska man. A creationist successfully proved the evolutionists wrong by showing them that the tooth came from a peccary (wild pig). Java the ape-man`s skull was found on the island of Java in Indonesia in the same strata (ground layer) as human skulls. Why would human skulls be buried with Java man`s skull if they were hundreds of years apart?

    Now let`s look at the ethical issues of evolution. If I was a genetic mistake, what would my purpose on earth be? To live and die? Where would I go when I died? I would disappear into oblivion! Reincarnation would sure get boring after millions of years!

    See the problem of evolution`s “missing links”. Living organisms are too complex to be formed gradually by small changes over many generations, and evolution requires that intermediates be fully functional and capable of survival in every step. If a bat evolved from a rodent-like mammal, in the evolutionary process, the toes on the rodent would get so long and awkward that it wouldn`t be able to eat it`s prey, hold food to its mouth, or fly, because it would be in the intermediate stage.

    If you guys have any questions or comments, please reply and I will answer them ASAP.

    The awesome Christian creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  60. Remember, Jesus does love you! Oh and there`s nothing illegal about being a “Jesus Freak” or “Bible thumper”!

  61. I am not religious, Christians say there is no evidence but have faith, you are saying the same… there is no evidence but you must believe, every living creature that looks alike have close DNA, lion-tiger, man-monkey. There is not one piece of evidence showing that a specie had or can evolve.

  62. Yes there is Dave….Obviously you have never learned about it. Go read up on the subject and hopefully it will change your mind. There is OVERWHELMING evidence supporting evolution but the problem is religious people refuse to listen.

    RELIGION – Because thinking is too hard.

  63. Bob, if evolution is an ongoing process, then we should be living amoung thousands of transitions, show me one, chimps are not extinct and man isn’t either then where are the transitions. You guys are just like Christians, ask them for proof they say look around, you guys are the same, where is the proof,. You say read up on it, remember all you are reading is from people like yourself who has no evidence to offer.

  64. @ A smart logical thinker…..Religion – out of nothing god created the universe and everything in it. Evolution – out of nothing came a big bang and the universe and everything magically appeared. neither have hard proof or ( visible) evidence. Just remember the bible made a lot of money and scientists have to keep their monthly cheques rolling in by talking a lot of shit. You guys read more on the politics behind science. Scientist are paid to say garbage regardless if it is true or not.

  65. I think a Creationist will see the same evidence as an Evolutionist but will interpret the evidence differently. The Evolutionist will then call the Creationist ignorant because the Creationist tries to see how the evidence supports a belief system.

    There are many artifacts from ancient times that depict man and dinosaurs lived together. The Evolutionist doesn’t want to admit these as evidence though.

    In the beginning God created, or in the beginning an explosion occured from nothing. Both are religion. We can never prove either to each other. You have to choose. What other options are there for the origin of life?

    I’m not ignorant and am not ignoring the evidence. I don’t believe that the interpretation of the evidence is absolute.

    When a bone is found that was buried in the earth it only proves whatever animal the bone belonged to has died. We may find many of that animals bones and be able to assemble them into a skeleton and maybe even make an accurate guess as to what it used to look like. But we can never be sure that it ever reproduced.

  66. You evolutionists should look at the evidence! Evolutionists once thought that our appendix was a remnant of a cow intestine! WRONG!!! It was really an intestine filter. Evolutionists have to guess everything, proving their ignorance to accept the truth and their lust to find answers that just aren`t there. HOW ABOUT YOU “READ UP ON” CREATION IN THE BIBLE!! The Bible talks about you people “ignorant to listen and rejecting the truth though they know it in their hearts” If you have questions or comments, please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  67. This is to everyone that is on the fence, pick a side there is no in between. Evolution is the complete opposite of creation, and creation is the backbone of Christianity. if there was life and death before the fall then the death of Jesus means nothing.

  68. I read the entire article and every comment. Because I am always searching for the truth not my truth or your truth just the truth. I will ask everyone one question where did thought come from? Good Day

  69. There are a lot of ignorant comments on both sides, but the creationist WAY is that they know everything and you can’t tell them otherwise, god made everything, adam and eve did the nasty and we are all products of incest, noah built an ark and somehow fit two of every animal on and again, WE ARE ALL PRODUCTS OF INCEST… now their are many evolutionists that also believe it is the only way, but if you really pay attention to science the smartest always acknowledge they could be wrong and science IS ALWAYS OPEN TO BE PROVEN RIGHT OR WRONG and revised, edited or changed (the beauty of peer review, it never ends) The fact of the matter is we may never know the truth, the big bang cannot be proven just like god cannot be proven.
    One thing I know for sure is that if there is a god , our tiny, irrelevent human minds are not capable of understanding who or what IT is and how IT works. I can assure you if there Is a god he is not an egotistical, childish, jealous, MAN who demands your praise or he will throw you in hell for eternity, especially when we already are in a place quite comparable to hell…. why would you praise someone like that? I was raised christian and I tried talking to god for a long time to no avail, all Ive seen through my life and through my studies of history is ignorance,poverty, suffering and hell on earth for the masses (the most evil people, who for some reason, if you pay attention to history, are always living nice while innocent, poor people suffer, starve and die) what kind of good god is that?
    let me ask you christians this, what about, for example, the people of north korea, who for the most part have never heard of your white jesus (Who was born in jerusalem and certainly could not have been a white man) or your white god, what happens to them when they die from starvation or get shot in the head by their oppresive government? then after living in hell, they go on to hell??

    Ill say this, their may be some type of creator, but if i die and come face to face with your god, I’m going to show him BOTH of my cheeks and my scrotum sack and continue to show him my middle finger as he sends me to the depths of hell where I shall dwell for eternity!! lol get over your childish stories people if there is a god we cannot comprehend it, it certainly is not a childish jealous MAN

  70. So a mouse DNA is 92% similar to a Human DNA. So not only are we branched out on that ole evolution tree from a chimpanzee at 98% similarity, but I guess that means I’m cousin to that pesky fruit rat eating my avocados? Curious, what is the difference between the 6 percentages of separation from a mouse and ape to the 2 percentages between a hairy ape and me?

  71. @ Anthony: “let me ask you christians this, what about, for example, the people of north korea, who for the most part have never heard of your white jesus (Who was born in jerusalem and certainly could not have been a white man) or your white god, what happens to them when they die from starvation or get shot in the head by their oppresive government? then after living in hell, they go on to hell??” (quote from Anthony)

    Answering your question, That`s why we are trying to reach the Asians and North Koreans with the gospel, because they will go to hell if we don`t reach them with the Bible. Also, that is why the Communist governments of North Korea, China, and Russia hate Christians, because they will actually stand up for what is right and fight the government because they have Jesus living inside of them. Communists have actually banned the Bible because it teaches that dictator-like governments like Communism are wrong.

    Next Question: “lol get over your childish stories people if there is a god we cannot comprehend it, it certainly is not a childish jealous MAN” (quote from Anthony)

    Answering that comment: It is not a “childish story,” it is actually a proven truth through ancient documents. The fact that the Bible is a book written by over 30 men inspired by God over a time period of 2,000 years, yet it still matches up completely, is amazing in itself. The Bible has been proven true because it said the world was round over 3,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan sailed around the world. That is just one of the many ways the Bible and Christianity is true. So why don`t you people just believe? The proof is right in front of you.

    Refer to my first post for more information.
    If you have any questions or comments, please share your thoughts and/or conflicting ideas by replying.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  72. Also don`t forget to watch the debate with the Creationist Ken Ham vs. Evolutionist Bill Nye on February 4th, 2014. You can watch it LIVE online.

  73. I would really like to see just ONE post from a evolutionist standpoint regarding the creationism debate that doesn’t mock creationists. Evolutionists often remark that creationists aren’t open-minded, however evolutionists dismiss creationists as soon as they state their position. Please post a debate without shooting rude remarks toward creationists and we’ll see how convincing that is.

    P.S.
    Giraffes DNA are 99% of human DNA. So logically we evolved from giraffes not apes. And we obviously look like giraffes.

  74. This was very informative! I don’t believe in evolution…I accept evolution as fact…backed by mountains of evidence…ongoing discoveries & rational sensibility! Religion is just plain weird…& as far as I’m concerned…religion is an insult to the intelligence of the human race!

  75. I love how religious folk quote the bible & still can’t prove shit! Religious folk look at the natural world & interpret it with weird stories & superstition! No rational sensibility whatsoever! The law of the land does not put people in prison because they BELIEVE he or she committed the crime…they collect the EVIDENCE…present it & then determine if he or she is guilty! If I were religious I would be asking my peers “why is there 0% evidence of God…but mountains of evidence…ongoing discoveries & rational sensibility of evolution?” All 4,200 or so religions on the planet can’t be right…but they can be all wrong! God…Satan are ancient man made characters that has fooled the gullible & naive (religious folk) Its ancient man’s guess where we all came from! Brilliant for the time it all started but completely pathetic in today’s world! Ancient humans never had the knowledge or technology we now have today! It’s time to put our superstitions (religion & or a belief in a higher being) on a dusty shelf & left there for people to say “This is what early humans used to think where we came from…& brother were all religions wrong! Debate anyone? You’ll find me on FB!

  76. Shawn, I would like to see some of your evidence. I have already posted around 30% of mine in my first comment with more to come. And I quote the Bible because it is true, because if even one bit of it wasn`t true, I would be an atheist. But because I have read it cover to cover and found all of the evidence it holds, I remain a Christian. Evolution requires the same amount of faith as Creation. Maybe evolution requires more faith to believe. DO YOU LIKE COMMUNISM SHAWN? THERE ARE PLENTY OF EVOLUTIONISTS AND OTHER ATHEISTS IN THAT TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. Oh and I am 13 years old so don`t judge me; I have done extensive research on this debate.

    The Awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  77. Well, this thread has certainly been entertaining, to say the least. I wonder however, how anyone can even begin to rationalize, or to make the assertion that Evolution is a myth, disregarding all the empirical evidence, both in the fossil record of man’s stages of development, and genetic evidence, and state emphatically that their myth is the correct myth, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever other than a book who’s authorship and origins can not be ascertained

  78. If you wish to believe that all life has come about by a continuous series of billions of mutations that don’t replicate, and that some unguided events caused two sexes to form at exactly the same time and then continued to replicate in a single event be my guest. I don’t know how it was done but it sure as hell wasn’t evolution. There really isn’t any evidence to show that evolution caused any of what’s here physically, much less the addition of thought, emotions, and feelings, All evolutionists do is take was is and make a million chances (opps that’s what they said when I was young, It wouldn’t make everything fit so they changed it to billions) for it to magically form itself, Then at some point it decides to makes choices about how it can survive. Hogwash. And you don’t need to believe in a creator to know that just isn’t going to happen ever. Not in a trillion times a trillion times.

  79. Ok, I don’t care if you label me a jesus freak, you said…. That`s why we are trying to reach the Asians and North Koreans with the gospel, because they will go to hell if we don`t reach them with the Bible…. so pretty much you just said that even though they know nothing of christianity and god, they are going to hell. well you, jesus freak, even though you are only 13, are stupid, and the definition of evil… I don’t think you know your own god, because if he is good, then he wouldn’t throw people who never got the chance to hear about him in hell, that’s absolute idiocracy….. hey little guy, don’t you realize if you were born in a different country, to a different race, you would believe in a different god? that alone should be enough to throw up a red flag

  80. man, If I don’t care Iif you label me a jesus freak was my child, I would either kill him and try to make it look like it was someone else, or an accident, or I’d kill him and myself, either way Id want to kill him, to rid the world of that smug, self righteous little pos he is

  81. With all due respect anthony, your threatening to kill people just shows your ignorance.

    If I was an adult, you would be treating me differently. But because I am 13, you pounce on me because that is my only weakness, my youth. I`m not a “smug self-righteous pos” as you said, I am an educated person who has examined both sides of this debate and have determined Christianity and Creation is the most true.

    And why am I evil by trying to help people in Korea? Even if Creation wasn`t true, we would still be helping the people in Korea with medical supplies and food, as well as fresh water. WE ARE HELPING PEOPLE, ANTHONY. We don`t force our religion on them, we just give it as an option. And most poor foreign people accept Christianity because it fills them with joy knowing that they will be going to a better place.
    Again, the question I asked in my first post:”If evolution was true, where would I go if I die?” WHERE WOULD I GO? Evolution has questions. Creation has answers. Anthony, reply without threatening to kill people or cussing them out. That just shows you are clueless and you are TRYING to sound smart.
    Reply with questions and I will answer them ASAP.
    The Awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  82. Pingback: Aaaaand...it's not just private schools... - Page 2

  83. @ jesus freak. LOL threatining to kill someone has nothing to do with ignorance lil guy, look up the word in a dictionary, plus I’m not threatening, I was saying if u were my child I would, now look up the word threatening…. we are typing back and forth to eachother,it makes no difference what age you are, If we were face to face and I physically pounced on you, THAT would be taking advantage of the fact that you are young…. you are not an educated person, you are a closed minded fool who is flaunting his age trying to get acceptance from other creationists and trying to get people to say oh my, you are only 13? how smart you are lol.

    You are not helping any one child, I gaurantee you have never been to north korea plus christians bringing your gods words to them won’t help them whatsoever you are just putting things in their heads or in their possession that would get them and there family for the next three generations killed or put in concentration camps, because they have to worship the kim family and no one else.

    My point in that comment and why I said you are evil is that you said that even if they never hear or your christianty, even if you DONT reach them with your gods words, they still go to hell anyway, and that’s how most christians react to that question, and it makes no sense at all. if your god would send someone to hell even though they never even heard of him, then he is evil, plain and simple

  84. @Anthony: Sir, I am not being a boastful person, I simply told you my age to see what you would make of me and if you would attack me for my age.

    About North Korea: I have actually been to Thailand, Romania, England, Germany, France and very close to the border of North and South Korea to name a few countries I`ve traveled to for missions trips. I have seen the guards and have even heard gunshots inside the gates, and my heart aches for those people. Anthony I have saved at least 50 people in my missions trips. Recently I went to Guatemala and founded a very prosperous orphanage with my group. Anthony the North Koreans actually have underground secret church services that is quickly multiplying. The people continue their services despite persecution. Do you call those people stupid?

    Again, The Bible has been proven over and over again: it said the world was round before anyone else ever knew, it showed Communism fails, it is the only book to last over 3,000 years without being lost or rewritten. It even says, “anyone who alters or changes this book will be killed.” The founders of several cults died in mysterious ways at earlier ages than other people because they changed the Bible. The Bible also lays out helpful farming tips, irrigation, and the layout of ancient cities. The Bible says that Jericho was destroyed by a great earthquake and fell down, and nobody even needed to attack it because it was already destroyed by God. Archaeologists have actually found proof that the city was destroyed by supernatural means. A great fortified double-walled city with hundreds of thousands of people can`t fall completely from an earthquake.

    Mother Teresa was a christian Anthony, if she wasn`t a Christian nun she would be another normal person.

    Any questions or comment? Please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  85. @jesus freak

    If you believe so much in the bible and that it is the word of god, please tell me in any context how it is ok to own another human person as property?

    And as to your “missions” work. Name one thing you did to help all those people that couldn’t have done by a non believer. And one last question. Do you do mission work because god wants you to or you want to?

  86. @Faith is gullibility
    It is absolutely NOT ok to own anyone as property. I oppose slavery of all types.

    And I helped those people with Jesus, they were immediately filled with joy and went out to tell their friends and family.

    They are willing to be martyred for Jesus, no matter how torturous, because God fills them with love. Christians have been tortured and had continued telling their torturers about Christ until they died. Many of the torturers were touched by the martyr`s love for them and became Christians. A non-believer could not give them eternal things.
    Also, I do missions work because God calls each believer to do so in the Bible.

    I`m glad I could answer your questions. If you have any more, please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  87. @ Jesus freak
    How could you oppose slavery yet your god condones it?
    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    And you stated you gave them Jesus? No food? No water? No medical treatment? No supplies? No shelter? And what exact “eternal things” did you give them?

    And also if the god never called his believers to do so you wouldn’t do it? And if you are doing what the bible tells you, do you stone homosexuals and unruley kids?

  88. @ Faith is gullibility
    Sir, the NLT version is inaccurate and is not God`s Word in its purest form. In the King James Version (the original version), it says this:

    40 But as an hired SERVANT, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.

    41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.

    42 For they are my SERVANTS, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: THEY SHALL NOT BE SOLD AS BONDMEN. (slaves)
    43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.

    44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

    46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, YE SHALL NOT RULE OVER EACH OTHER WITH RIGOUR.

    (Leviticus 25 40-46 KJV)

    As you see, Faith is gullibility, IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION, this is actually talking about servanthood, not slavehood, as you see from the words SERVANT and THEY SHALL NOT BE SOLD AS BONDMEN (slaves). Being a paid, respected servant is different from being a payless, beaten slave. The heathen people referenced in verse 44-46 were wicked people that had put them into slavery in the first place.

    Not only did you not read the whole selection to understand the background, you also cut out a few parts by putting the most inaccurate version in your comment.

    Any more questions or comments? Reply and I will answer them ASAP.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  89. And yes, Faith is Gullibility, I provided the people with food, water, and shelters, gave the children toys, and watched them enjoy the things me and my group provided.

  90. I stumbled across this link, and after reading your post I was left wondering two things:
    First, where are your sources? Anyone can post any number of things on a website, but a really persuasive argument contains some citation of sources.
    Second, if I gave you the benefit of the doubt and said all of your information is true, how do you explain the very beginning? I would like to see your conclusive proof – proof that does not rely on faith.

  91. @Inquiring Mind:
    There`s the problem; no matter how you think the world came about, it all requires faith because nobody but God was there at Creation. In evolution, they leave you to guessing about how the universe came about, while God left his Word (the Bible) as a personal narrative of the Creation of the world.

    If you have any questions, please reply, and I will answer them ASAP.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  92. @inquiring mind

    Evolution has no say nor nothing to do with the beginning leaving your question pointless.

    As to your point about sources I understand his article needs sources but if we are going to ask that question, what sources are there for the bible. Every bible ever written in history, on the cover page, the author is always unknown.

  93. @Faith is gullibility: That`s because the authors were men inspired by God. The New Testament was written by the founders of the early church and by a man named Paul, who actually killed and imprisoned Christians until his life was changed when he saw a bright light from God that blinded him which said, “Why do you persecute me?” Paul became a Christian.
    There were actually other people who saw the light and wrote down the sighting in their “history books.”
    The first five books of the old testament (and the origins of the earth) were written by Moses (found to be a real person) Most of the other books were written by prophets (their prophecies actually came true) And the proverbs were written by Solomon, a very wise man. (The proverbs have everyday wisdom that is necessary for daily life)
    Any questions or comments? Please reply and I will answer them ASAP.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  94. @ jesus freak

    did you not read your own scripture that you inserted?
    44 Both thy bondmen(slave, as you said), and thy bondmaids(slave, as you said), which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye BUY bondmen and bondmaids.
    45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye BUY, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and THEY SHALL BE YOUR POSSESSION.
    46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; THEY SHALL BE YOUR BONDMAN FOREVER: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule over each other with rigour.

    Please don’t be so ignorant to believe the scripture as you want it to be rather then how it really is. there is no hiding that god condones slavery. you can read the verses however you want but it will never change the fact that god CONDONES SLAVERY.

  95. @ jesus freak

    first off you have no proof that any of this is even true. that any of them actual wrote anything. everything was written from 30-1500 years after the death of jesus. all we have is copies of copies of copies which could at any time be written down incorrectly or forged.I noticed you think that the correct origins of the universe and seeing as you don’t believe in evolution i am hoping that you are not a young earth creationist?

  96. 2/3 of the world beleive in some creation / creator. I am not one to start fights, but I will simply state my Beleifs.
    This article seemed to be defending itself from Christianity rather than actually stating good facts.
    Most of these facts I found unuseful. If Christianity is soo wrong to you all, then Evolution is soo wrong to us.

    Over time, I have studied creation Vs Evolution, my parents, in fact, where teachers for this very subject.

    Yes, I am a Christian.

    Yes, I beleive that there is a god and that he created the earth.

    Want to know some facts about creation vs evolution?

    1) Christianity talks about a worldwide flood, because God sent rain to punish the humans that had began t corrupt.
    Scientist have indeed agreed that their must have been a great floodd,
    They even found a city underwater!

    2) Evolution says the sun was there before earth began its process, however, in Christianity it says that God made the Earth before the sun moon and stars.
    (That one was for the people who seem to think that Christianity and evolution are one and the same.)

    3) Apes may be similar, but their body-structures are different from ours, if even by a little. Their wrists cannot turn, because they have no joints between their hands and arm that can rotate like our hands.
    How did they evolve into creatures like us if their hands where built differently?

    4) in the beginning God made the heavins and the earth. -Genasis 1:1
    If God created the earth, what is to say that when he created the Ape (a day before he created human beings) he liked the DNA of the creature, so he put it in another species. Is there anyone to decent that not a creature in this earth is alike? I think not.

    These are all facts that I came up with on my own or from books that I read. If I do make some mistakes, I apolagise.
    I simply am here to state my belief, because I have been taught bouth sides, and I have debated them in my own mind.

    If you all really want to argue creation vs evolution, you need to look into both sides.
    You should probably read the Bible before jumping to conclusions after something “somone” told you. You may find that what you where told was incorrect. Get facts of the bible, not Biased opinions.

    I am indeed a Christian, a Jesus Freek at that.
    I am simply stating my opinion, that is all.

  97. @Faith is Gullibility: If you study history, in those days being a slave was usually to pay debts, or if you were a prisoner of war, you were basically a slave. If you consider in WW2 that we held German POWs, you would see that they were basically slaves. The Bible says nothing about beating slaves either.
    Some things permitted in the Old Testament did not necessarily represent the ideal. Due to the hardness of ancient Israel’s heart, God tolerated (and regulated) some things under the Old Law that had been long standing customs which He did not endorse. This was a temporary state of affairs until they civilisation could progress to the extent they could learn a better way.

    God desired that all people love their neighbours as themselves (Leviticus 19:18). Yet, in a time when God used the children of Israel as His arm of justice to punish evildoers, certain questions arose. What was to be done, for example, with the survivors of those wicked nations? What was to be done with a man who was so far in debt that he could not repay his lender? These issues, and others like them, necessitated that God institute some form of humane regulations for prisoners of war or people working to pay off a debt. That latter type of “slavery” was much more of an employer/employee relationship than an owner/slave situation. Would it be fair for a society to allow a person who had accumulated a huge amount of debt to sell his labour to another person to pay that debt? Yes, it would. However, God—aware that abuse might arise in any situation—even regulated “debt slavery”, and provided for the rights and privileges of the slave to be guarded and for them to be released from the debt and set free after a reasonable time.

    Immoral nations who practiced unspeakable evils surrounded the Hebrews. In order to rid the world of their destructive influence, the children of Israel under God’s guidance, dealt with them in several ways. One of those ways included forcing the wicked nations into slavery. Many of the slave regulations in the Old Testament deal with the treatment of individuals and nations who had committed crimes against humanity that were worthy of death. The wicked people were graciously allowed to live, but they were subjected to slavery, much like a lifetime prison sentence in modern criminal cases. Other times the people were so depraved, so evil, that Capital punishment was the only option for the good of mankind as a whole.

    Certain other types of “slavery” are not morally wrong either. For instance, when a man is convicted of murder, he often is sentenced to life in prison. During his life sentence, he is forced by the State to do (or not do) certain things. He is justly confined to a small living space, and his freedoms are revoked. Sometimes, he is compelled by the State to work long hours, for which he does not receive even minimum wage. Would it be justifiable to label such a loss of freedom as a type of slavery? Yes, it would. However, is his loss of freedom a morally permissible situation? Certainly. He has become a slave of the State because he violated certain laws that were designed to ensure the liberty of his fellow citizen, whom he murdered. Therefore, one fact that must be conceded by anyone dealing with the Bible and its position on slavery is the fact that, under some conditions, slavery is not necessarily a morally deplorable institution.

    The fact is, certain types of “slavery” not only are permissible, but sometimes necessary to the well-being of a society at large. For the biblical stance on slavery to be condemned as unjust, it must be established that the specific regulations of slavery described in the text are immoral and unfair. However, when closely scrutinized, the biblical stance on the legal type of slavery practiced by the Jews aligns itself with true justice. All regulations found therein were established for the just treatment of all parties involved. “Slavery” in the form permitted in the Old Testament was a mutually beneficial relationship between servant and master, similar to an employee/employer relationship. Furthermore, slavery often was a substitute for the death penalty—which certain nations deserved. Debt accumulation caused many free persons to sell their labour and become slaves. The fact is, certain types of “slavery” not only are permissible, but sometimes necessary to the well-being of a society at large.

    The type of slavery that used to be practiced in America was specifically banned by the Bible, kidnapping a man and selling him as a slave was a crime punishable by death, as noted in Exodus 21:16 and if a master mistreated his slaves and they ran away , God made it unlawful for runaway slaves to be returned to their masters. (Deuteronomy 23:15-16). Deuteronomy 24:14 reads: “You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy…”

    Any attempt to generalize and condemn all types of slavery fails to take into account prison, personal debt, indentured servant hood, and a host of other morally permissible situations. Today’s Bankruptcy laws, prison terms, community service hours, and garnished wages are morally acceptable modern equivalents to certain types of legitimate slavery that existed during the time of the biblical writers.

    If you have any questions please reply.
    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  98. @jesus freak
    ok wow. a lot to reply to. ill start with your first reply.

    2/3 of the world believing in a creator is irrelevant. no matter how many people believe something to be true doesn’t make it true. there are plenty of people who truly believe they were abducted by aliens but that doesn’t make it true. but in your case then we must believe aliens exist because a certain percentage say so.

    next with the flood.i really hope you honestly don’t think that noahs ark is real or that there was any WORLDWIDE flood. there have been countless hoax that have stated they have “found” noahs ark. first off where did all the rain/water come from and where did it go? there are multiple models that prove no flood of that magnitude could have occurred. if you want sources i will surely show them to you.

    on to the sun. the sun is 4.57 billion years old. earth is 4.54 billion years old making the sun older by 30 million years. not sure why you said evolution said that because evolution has nothing do with the cosmos making your comment a bit pointless.

    on to the ape.i am no evolutionary biologist and im quite sure you aren’t either.
    but the difference in something as small as a wrist is what evolution is. the ape evolved from its surroundings with certain traits such as you stated with the wrist just as we evolved with much longer legs and so forth.

    on to your genesis 1:1 if god made the ape and a day later said “hey this ape is cool, ill create a similar species that almost look alike and give them almost the same DNA”. very creative god you have there. but that is somewhat irrelevant. also we did not come from apes. we have a common ancestor. just like a tree branch on a tree. our ancestor is the beginning limb and we are on a different branch. hence the tree of life.if you want fossil records, transitional forms, or anything of that nature that you can study to show you that evolution is a FACT. i would be more than happy to give them to you.
    i will also respond to your slavery comment in just a bit

  99. @Faith is gullibility.
    Okay, think about this: every mammal and human has the same body functions, you eat, you digest, you excrete. Even bacteria do this. Now because our bodies are similar to each other, all animals have the same basic DNA code. Amazingly enough, Giraffes actually have more of a DNA similarity to us than an ape. So that means we came from Giraffes? Do you see a long neck and spots all over? Maybe four equal sized legs and hooves? No, just because our DNA is similar to an animal doesn’t mean we came from it. As I said in my first post: Living organisms are too complex to be formed by gradually by small changes over many generations.

    Evolutionists say that bats came from a rodent-like mammal. One problem: a bat’s wings are composed of extremely long finger bones connected by a thin web of skin. In order for a rodent’s fore paws to have become wings, the fore paws would have become useless for grasping or running long before they enabled the creature to fly. Thus, instead of being an “improved” creature, the long-fingered rodent would have been a deformed creature unable to run, walk, hold food to its mouth, or fly, because EVOLUTION REQUIRES THAT INTERMEDIATES BE FULLY FUNCTIONAL AND CAPABLE OF SURVIVAL IN EVERY STEP.

    And about the Great Flood: Not only do most Indian tribes have stories about a large flood that covered the treetops, but there are also ancient sea clams on the summit of Mount Everest. HOW DID THOSE GET THERE? The only explanation is a flood that covered Mount Everest. Scientists have proven that the only way an organism can fossilize is through a quick and rapid burial. The fossils all over the world are only explained by the flood, where organisms were buried quickly by a mix of water and sediment. Oh and the rain came from the heavens as the Bible says. And if you say you can’t trust the Bible then read it yourself. God says he will reveal himself to you if you have a willing heart to understand the Bible.

    And yes, Moses has been proven to be a real person. Archaeologists have found hieroglyphics in Egypt that pictures Moses being carried out of the water as the Bible itself says. We know who wrote the New Testament because they were letters to several churches in Mediterranean cities, with the greeting Paul used.

    Any questions or comments? Please reply.
    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  100. Pingback: Meine 10 Gründe, weshalb ich Kreationismus weder ernstnehme noch respektiere - indub.io

  101. These creationists are hypocrites and their minds are too small to comprehend the complexities of Evolution and how it works. They should all go and live in a cave where their religious texts will be applicable. A novel written by desert and cave dwellers, that’s the Bible.

  102. Nolan, where is your proof? How do you know? Evolution is full of assumptions! Creation has answers. You wouldn`t attack Muslims about their religion because they would kill you. So you attack Christians who cannot hurt you. Nolan, your assumptions have no foundation. Give me some proof that shows evolution is real. Then I will look at you as an educated person and not some guy that says “evolution is real” and can`t prove it.
    Any questions or comments? Please reply and I will answer them ASAP.
    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  103. Self proclaimed Freak, I must confess to you that I was brought up in a Christian home so I’m well aware of the methods of indoctrination and this is evident from your brain washed responses. Think for yourself dude, I know it can be challenging.

    Reading and comprehension will help quell your curiosity.
    You can take a Jackass to a pond but you cannot force him to drink. I cannot teach you something if you are not willing to learn.

  104. @ jesus freak

    i really dont want to get into long talks about certain species and what not because im not going to pretend that im a biologist. what i will say regarding to all your information regarding evolution being false is irrelevant. if today evolution was provento be completely wrong it still doesnt prove that god exists. saying evolution is wrong doesnt prove another theory right.

    As to your answer of the “great flood” and Mt Everest is a very simple answer. plate tectonics. Mount Everest owes its great height to the collision of the Indian subcontinent and Asia around 50 million years ago(way before your flood story) which explains why Mt Everest today is still growing.

    the rain came from the heavens? where is this heavens place and how do we observe it?also where did all the rain go after the flood? did it just fly back up to the “heavens”? How did noah and his family build a ship to withstand a “worldwide” flood?Wood is not the best material for shipbuilding. It is not enough that a ship be built to hold together; it must also be sturdy enough that the changing stresses don’t open gaps in its hull. Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?
    How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren’t the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

  105. @faith is gullibility
    About your plate tectonics comment, I agree with plate tectonics, but how do you know that it happened 50 million years ago? Were you there? Nobody was there at the time the world was created. So how do you know it was that long ago? Look at the seamounts in the Pacific Ocean, they form within 1,000 years. Mountains also can form really quickly. In Mexico, a mountain rose up in a farmer’s cornfield within days. So what if the Appalachian Mountains had formed before the flood, causing the erosion found in the Appalachian Mountains? What if the Rockies and Sierra Nevada Mountains were formed after the flood, leaving them with no apparent erosion?

    Also, the family that built the ark (it took them a few years) were experienced shipbuilders. It says in the Bible that the ark was sealed completely with pitch (like a waterproof paint) eliminating the problem of leaks. The inner workings of the ark were made in the fashion that each part of the frame reinforced the other part, allowing it to be very sturdy. It was made in such a manner that it was rigid and wasn’t even able to flex or bend.
    Any questions? Please reply.
    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  106. @Nolan
    Nolan, I have thought for myself, and I haven`t been brainwashed. I actually wasn`t a Christian two years ago. But I searched for myself and have seen the evidence provided by Creation and the foolishness of evolution. Societies based in Christianity have succeeded, but secular, atheistic, Communistic societies have failed. I can give several examples of Christian societies that have triumphed over atheistic, Communistic ones. I have thought for myself, Nolan. As you said, “You can take a horse to the water but you can`t force it to drink” How about YOU think for yourself, Nolan.
    Questions or comments? Please reply.
    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  107. Freak, the Bible like most other religious texts is nothing more than a political tool used to suppress the poor and mentally weak.
    I don’t have the time to prove to you that evolution is real but you can enlighten yourself by asking questions.

    There is absolutely nothing to prove that some intelligent being is responsible for my design. The bible is a farce because the ‘world’ as it was known during the time of Noah was mostly around the Red sea. This is a real question, Was there a polar bear on Noah’s ark? No foolish answer please and how did he get the polar bear because I know you are going to say yes!

  108. @Nolan
    I can and will explain your “Polar bear problem”, but first, the Bible is not a political tool, it is actually the foundation of the moral standards we have today.

    Without the Bible, we wouldn’t have America. We would have been like Russia, ravaged by war, Communist tyrants, and chaos, which is all associated with atheistic power-hungry men, not guided by Biblical moral codes. We were founded on Christianity, freedom, equality, and power to the people.

    The thing about the polar bear, the ark was described in the Bible to have two of each kind. That means male and female dog, a male and female bear, a male and female frog, and so on. After the flood, the animals were released to reproduce, and spread out over the earth. Each animal adapted to its environment. You might think I am quoting evolution, but instead am saying that each bear stayed a bear, but changed slightly to where it lived.

    Think of Africans. According to evolution, they are a different species than us, a lower creature on the evolutionary tree of life. This notion induces slavery, because they are lower creatures. This notion induced the Second World War, because Hitler, a power-hungry atheist who studied evolution, influenced the people to think that they were a higher branch on the evolutionary tree of life than the Jews. Because Africans or Jews are different than us doesn’t mean we are not the same being.

    According to the Creationist “Orchard”, each animal came from an ancestor that was just like it. Look up the orchard view on Google Images to see what I mean.

    Bottom line. Evolution causes slavery, inequality, Communism, and immorality that has provoked wars and caused hundreds of thousands of people to die.

    Any questions or comments? Please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  109. @jesus dipshit… so after the flood died down did 600 yr old noah then sail around and distribute the animals all over the world? or did the bears swim back to the USA and other places? o wait noah had no idea there was another side of the world, o yeah and it’d be impossible to have all them animals on a damn boat…not with god guiding him eh? baaahahahaa

    Oh and if you actually READ into history, its actually RELIGION that causes slavery, inequality, Communism, and immorality that has provoked wars and caused hundreds of thousands of people to die.

    But when does history or evidence ever mean anything to a bible thumping jack@$$ who’s been thumpin bibles since the womb….I was raised christian too, but I have a brain…and I’m usually not so big on being mean to people but jesus freak you are such an ignorant arrogant smug lil bastard, I hate so much

    RELIGION CAUSES MORE SEGREGATION, HATE AND PAIN THEN ANY OTHER SINGLE IDIOTIC THING IN THIS WORLD

    I repeat….

    RELIGION CAUSES MORE SEGREGATION, HATE AND PAIN THEN ANY OTHER SINGLE IDIOTIC THING IN THIS WORLD

  110. Oh and jesus freak, stop giving yourself thumbs up, its always right after you post there is already a thumb up, sometimes one other person will give you one, douche

  111. @anthony he didn`t sail around and disperse the animals himself, there were most likely land bridges that allowed the animals to spread out. Also, how do you know the earth wasn`t together yet? Haven`t you seen Pangaea? What if the continents were together when Noah`s ark came to rest? There is actually a reference in the Bible that vaguely describes Pangaea. Oh and I have READ into History. My GPA in History is a 98.5 thank you very much!

    About the debate on religion, as I have said in my earlier comment,

    “Think of Africans. According to evolution, they are a different species than us, a lower creature on the evolutionary tree of life. This notion induces slavery, because they are lower creatures. This notion induced the Second World War, because Hitler, a power-hungry atheist who studied evolution, influenced the people to think that they were a higher branch on the evolutionary tree of life than the Jews. Because Africans or Jews are different than us doesn’t mean we are not the same being.”

    If you have read the U.S. Declaration of Independence, it says

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” As you see here, we are “endowed by our Creator” with those rights. The U.S. was founded on Christianity, and that is why we still stand. In the French revolution, atheistic men attempted to change the calender from the God-created 7 days to a completely different, longer week. They moved Year 1 from the date of Jesus` birth to 1792, the year of the revolution. Both attempts were unsuccessful. The Communistic society that resulted from this revolution caused several people to be killed, including the King himself. This caused political unrest and the takeover of the government by Napoleon Bonaparte. This atheistic militaristic emperor of France fought several bloody wars to try to take over Europe.

    You might say that the Crusades were completely the Christians` doing, but you are wrong. The people who led the Crusades were actually not Christians but claimed to be Christians so that they could get support from the army, the king, and the citizens of England, allowing them to take over Europe under the disguise of Christianity.

    If it makes you feel any better, i will not like my own comments, even though I like them very much. I hope you feel better now! Oh, and attacking someone for liking their own comment is completely pathetic.

    If you have any questions or comments, please reply.

    The awesome creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  112. Anthony what makes you think that evilution is not a religion. You are almost right when you say religion causes problems, your failure is in not recognizing that men create all of the evil in the world. They will use any method to achieve their goals. The Bible is not religion it is a book, what men use any book for is their choice. The book doesn’t make you do anything. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. So Jesus Freak does his homework, I will listen to anyone who researches more than I, doesn’t mean I have to believe them, I just have more info to sort through. Keep searching for the truth and it will find you.

  113. Jesus freak, yes I know about pangea, it was a long long time before noahs supposed ark, otherwise if things moved that quickly the continents would be much different then how they are today.
    Really think about that, if pangea was 6000 years ago, and today it is shaped the way it is, then every 100 years the continents would have shifted a lot and we would be making new maps, right? if that doesn’t make sense then there is nothing that can be explained to you.

    you also do not unerstand evolution, it in fact does not place anyone lower on the tree, we are all the same race, the human race, that comment proves you know nothing about evolution… what does induce slavery,however, is in your book, where it says men of dark skin was a punishment by god.
    Yes communists have a history of being bad, it still does not even come close to comparing to all the blood shed for and against your god. there is nothing more hateful and un accpeting of other views then religion.
    Attacking you for giving yourself a thumbs up is not pathetic, what is pathetic is trying to make it seem like other people are agreeing with you, who aren’t…

    Questions or comments, please reply…. uggh I can just see you typing that with your nose up in the air YOU ARE SUCH A DOUCHE! lol

    Pro legal are you serious??? evolution doesn’t praise a god up in the sky creating horrible deaths and making people suffer, it doesnt worship anyone, therefore it is not a religion. I actually am agnostic, I don’t know what is really true, its just that evolution has actual physical proof in fossils AND in DNA so I know evolution is a fact, BUT that doesn’t mean there is no creator, there very well could have been SOMETHING that created all this. the creator, if there is one, would not be a MAN, whatever IT is our tiny human brains could not comprehend. jesus freak has not done a lot of research, just the bible,and somke, history but all with a biased, religous mind…

    Science is the closest we can get to definitive answers because of the scientific method. creationism is not science, why? IT DOESNT USE THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD!

  114. oh and jesus freak, you were talking to someone else and you said that religion is not a political tool, that it is how we got our morals…. do you know about the great apes called the bonobo? they are most definitely not christian, they are monkeys, and they are very moral creatures that only fight if they must. they care for their young their family and even strangers. so our morals could just as likely be from a common ancestor. altruism is indeed a trait, basically, its like scratch my back and ill scratch yours, so it does come from a selfish standpoint.
    Religion lines the pockets of the higher ups, and keeps people bickering and against eachother

  115. @Anthony: the thing that explains pangaea is a worldwide flood weakened the ground under the earth with all of the water (explaining underground erosion) and caused the continents to gradually shift. How do you know that Pangaea happened millions of years ago? According for evolution to be correct, the transitional forms would have to be capable of survival in every step. Evolutionists say that bats came from a rodent-like mammal. The bat’s wings are actually made of long finger bones (as the evolutionists say). The rodent’s fingers would get so long that it wouldn’t be able to run, chase after prey, or even hold food to its mouth, causing that rodent group to die off.

    Explain to me this, archaeologists around the world have found schools of fish fossilized together, fish fossilized in the act of eating fish, and dinosaurs looking behind them almost as if they were running from something (a giant flood). These have been found around the world. Have schools of fish just fallen to the bottom of the ocean and died together? Have woolly mammoths told their children to lie down and die with them? Remember the only conditions for a fossil to form is rapid burial. This fact has been proven. But how could all the fossils around the world be rapidly buried by water and sediment? The Great Flood is the obvious answer. Go ahead and make something up, because that is all that evolutionists do.
    Go ahead and prove me wrong. We never knew what that ape looked like, nor what time it was alive, but we can at least read something that tells you instead of making random guesses.

    Creationism does use the scientific method. You have to remember it was Sir Francis Bacon who invented the Scientific Method, who just happened to be a devout Creationist. Why would a Creationist create something that proved Creation wrong? Because it didn’t prove it wrong.

    Oh and I say this because I have answers for every evolutionists idea you throw at me.
    Questions or comments? Please reply. Why do you even care about my conclusion anyway?

    The awesome Creationist
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  116. @Anthony: don’t resent me for my beliefs, but God programmed the morals into each of us. Just to let you know Anthony, it isn’t a political tool. If it was a political tool, we would only tell the rich people about God. But Jesus himself commanded us Christians to tell the poor and the needy about Him, as well as the other people. And Anthony, we do more charity work than evolutionists because all they are concerned about preserving “Mother Nature”. Its funny, because evolution is literally a religion in itself. They worship the earth and Nature. We worship the God who made it. I don’t know what happened to you in your childhood, Anthony, but it seems that you have gotten the wrong idea about God and are currently looking for reasons that he doesn’t exist. I don’t know how to make the obvious truth clear to you and that saddens me. Anthony, God does love you, and you need to know that.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  117. You do not seem to have a definite view of all your “facts”. For example in 1 you say that darwin was a devout christian and believed in God but that is because that was the culture of the time and not because he chose it on his own. He was brought up with biblical teachings in his home. Pretty much all of your facts are like this, you explain what they are but not why they are what they are. And without darwin you would not have a theory of evolution. Only of micro-evolution, which supports a young earth. Macro evolution is what darwin thought he was observing on the galapagos. When in fact he was observing adaptation (micro-evolution). So the theory of macro-evolution was stumbled upon by chance. And we would have discovered adaptation without Darwin but not Macro-evolution, which is the evolution you believe. And I have spent years studying both sides and have observed no evidence about evolution that stay consistent with what evolution supposedly is.

    Talking about fossils. Did you know that of the millions of fossils that we have we don’t have a single set that shows one type of species evolving into a totally different one. Only the beginning or end fossil no in between.:( You guys seriously need to find animals that prove evoluion. And how does having 98% same dna with monkeys have to do with the price of tea in china? Its totally irrelevant to our species as humans. That’s like saying wired bombs evolved from phones just because they have the same processor.

  118. I totally agree with @Macro isn`t Micro. Consider the writer of this article`s example about how the Carrera GT evolved from the VW Bug. It makes sense, except for one thing. Both the VW Bug and the Porsche Carrera GT had an intelligent creator, rendering that analogy useless. God created the monkey and man in the same week. Each had an intelligent creator, and just because one came from the same area (In this analogy, Germany) doesn`t mean it is related with that other vehicle. If you find a monkey and a man fossil in the same area, that doesn`t mean they are related, but are two different creatures that died at different times. Evolution uses circular reasoning, which is a false way of thinking. I can give you several examples for that. If you have any questions or comments, please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don`t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  119. o the stupidity oh oh oh wow just wow
    a couple of points
    num. 10. ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt human and ape dna are 98% similar’ nope nope in a study done a few years ago they found that actually it’s more like 95% and yes that is a big difference and even if you were right about the dna what about chromasomes? Apes have 48 we humans have 46 never I’ll reapeat that NEVER have scientists observed a healthy mutation where a creature lost or gained a chromosome and besides it’s technicaly easier to change a dna sequence rather than gain or loose a chromosome which means that it is more likely that a mosquito evolved from a tomato (they have the same number of chromosomes) rather than a human from an ape or vis versa and even if you want to push the random mutation theory take into account that in order for the mutation to last you need a male and female to have the same mutation at the same time in the same place and they have to actually get together the chances of that are less than 10^-60 time wise it would take a trilion trilion mammels procreating at a pace often thousand times per second for a trilion trilion years… See link at end of comment

    num. 6. ‘ no creature ever showed signs of having evolved from non darwanian evolution’ well unless you’re talking about MICRO-evolution you might want to rethink that. If what you say is true where are all the creatures in between us and the ape? Or at least why havnt humans evelved back into ape after all they survive much better in the wild? And let me say this clearly no scientist (at least honest ones) will tell you that they have evidence for the creation of a new spiecies fruit flies are the most tested creature with thousands upon thousands of generationg and millions upon millions of flies subjected to horrendous conditions and yet NEVER HAVE ANY MUTATIONS LED TO ANYTHING THAT WOULD IMPLY THE GENERATION OF A NEW SPIECIES ( and any beneficial mutations happened so quickly that it would only point to a genius creator)
    summary: evolution is a speculation not a scientific theory. It is not a question but an answer to the question of how we exist and why, which many people would love to just say we evolved from apes and therefore we have to make our own purpose in life or live without purpose (thats why people push evolution to a point that even if some facts don’t fit in we don’t care (even darwins brother said so)) rather than actually look at fact and realize that there is divine intervention and our purpose here on earth is to follow it’s leat but that’s another topic…
    heres an article that explains much more in depth as well as much much better clarity (and grammar ;) ) enjoy
    http://torah-science.blogspot.com/2012/01/evolution-facts-theories-and-fiction.html

  120. @jesus freak wow man seriously, you just ignore my good points and then keep babbling bull shit….I SAID if pangea went from one big continent to what it is today in 6000 years then our coastlines and mountains OUR GEOGRAPHY would change before our eyes, we would have to make new maps every 25 to 50 years because it would be changing so quickly!… also you said that atheism induces slavery, but thvebeen only a couple dictators that were atheist, Iif you pay attention to history AT ALL it is overwhelmingly apparent that religion causes the most death SLAVERY and blood spilled OVERWHELMINGLY….

    you said darwin was a devout christian?????? AGAIN you are just clearly talking out of your ass… HE WAS BORN CHRISTIAN, who can help what family they are born Iinto??? all it took was him to get out Iin the world and look around and see what was going on and he completely trashed his faith.. he even had problems with his wife because he no longer believed and she did.

    Now let me get this straight, you think a flood caused fish to get buried under water and sediment WOW DUDE. a floodisn’t gunna do anything to fish lil guy, ummmm you know, since THEY SWIM AND ALL AHAHHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAAHAA WOW.AND THEN YOU TELL ME TO MAKE SOMETHING UP BECAUSE THAT ALL EVOLUTIONISTS DO??? Yet you are the one who is saying fish got buried by a flood, DARWIN WAS A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN, you even said the monkeys I was talking about don’t exist anymore??? UM YA BONOBOS ARE STILL ALIVE, THEY HAVE MORALS AND THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, THEY ARE MONKEYS..

    You say you have answers for every evolution idea, but dude, everything I have just said is true YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT YOU SAID FISH GOT BURIED IN THE FLOOD FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

    Now I must explain the scientific method for you, yes sir francis bacon made it,and yes he was a bible thumper BUT WHERE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT,JESUS FREAK, is mr bacon even said that science and religion are not compatible THEY CANNOT BE MIXED. they do not work together….

    The scientific method, first you ask a question, second you do bacground research, third you construct a hypothesis which is an educated guess, which you can’t do for 2 reasons, the hypothesis must be testable, but how can you test stories?? And then THE ONLY RESEARCH YOU WERE ABLE TO DO WERE STORIES FROM THE BIBLE… 4 now you have to test your hypothesis, again there is no way to do expiraments, so you cannot test… so how can you draw conclusions, the fifth step, there is no data to analyze??

    Look, jesus freak, what I just did was look at your comment and prove everything you said to be rubbish! like I have said, I am agnostic, their could be some type of god I DO NOT KNOW, what I do know is christianity is impossible!

    Maybe I’m wrong jesus freak, maybe the christian god is truely the creator, that doesn’t excuse everything u just commented, it was all false, you don’t understand evolution,and YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THINGS UP, 1. darwin was not a devout christian. 2. bonobos are still alive. 3.fish didn’t get buried in the flood. 4. and sir francis bacon did NOT USE the scientific method with religion

    Now here is something else I bet u don’t know, your bible, isn’t even the same as it originally was written, do you know how many books have been taken out?? did you know that the original translation from hebrew could not have been correct because they only knew 4 words in hebrew?? what you read today is not the same bible that used to be….

    NOW, lets hear what YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP, lets not forget, YOUR last comment was the one where you jujst pulled shit straght from your ass, nothing you said was factual, lets recap…..

    1. darwin was not a devout christian. 2. bonobos are still alive. 3.fish didn’t get buried in the flood. 4. and sir francis bacon did NOT USE the scientific method with religion

  121. Oh and jesus freak, macro isn’t micro was disagreeing with you, are you having trouble reading? or is your reading comprehension??

  122. No Jesus Freak wasn’t disagreeing with me. He supported me quite well. Good analogy man.:) And Darwin was A Christian, look at all his quotes on christianity and atheism. He states very clearly that he was not an atheist and that evolution was only a possibility. And he wasn’t pressured to say that either because when he returned from his voyage he was a respected scientist. Are you going to believe what wikipedia says or the man himself? No comment on the finches?

    Since you want to bring a new argument to the table, this is a great link for how the bible was translated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GARMiSXD64
    And the bible wasn’t just written in hebrew man. The bible is divided in 2 parts, the Old Testament and the New Testament. Part of the Old was written in Aramaic and the entire New was written in Greek both we can translate fine:) And the hebrew part is able to be translated by a little something called the Dead Sea Scrolls. They are copys of the entire bible with the whole bible written in Hebrew and Greek Side by side. And we know these copys are true because we have 25,000 other copys of the bible from the same time period and written in different parts of the world but they ALL same the exact same words. Did you know the New Testament was written in a 5-75 year period after the death of Jesus? It took the Illiad and Oddessy 500 years to be written in enough copys to be a reliable source. And the Illiad and Oddessy only has 700 copys. That’s second place for most existing supporting copys of an ancient manuscript. Guess who’s in first? The bible with 25,000. Google it.

    Engaging the flood topic. Did you know that in the geological survey of the earth that every country on earth has been fully covered in water at some time with in the last 10,000 years? Sounds like a flood though I guess I don’t need to tell you that because you admit there was one anyway. And having a worldwide flood with the storms would have destroyed any ecosystems above and below the earth. And we know that it wkiashed away mountains which easily would have ensnared land as well as water animals into fossils. Were talking about putting a fish in a bowl and spraying a fire hose into it for 40 days. That is the equivalent of the storm we are talking about. And the ark was able to survive this because of its specially created structure. I mean if God gave the building instructions and had you take 120 years to build it wouldn’t it be pretty sound?

    Thanx for your riveting points anthony. Great conversation. You are not a being that came from nothing that was random chance. You are a creation of intelligent design. And God loves you more then you can imagine.

  123. Ok well in your first paragraph you were somewhat correcting him and telling him what he left out….. anyway you need to do more research, the quotes u are looking at must be from when he first started figuring it all out, because by the end him and his wife were fighting about religion because he no longer believed….read this article, its from christians like you guys, I thought they would be like you guys and try and say he WAS christian, but they don’t, they admit that he stopped believing

    Here is the site
    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/darwin.html

  124. O and macro, I haven’t looked at wikipedia, what’s the point of taking a total shot in the dark like that? you are a jackass, you say that as if you know you are right and probably will still think you are right even though I say NO I HAVENT LOOKED IN WIKIPEDIA…..NOW, what I HAVE looked at, are darwins letters to his wife IN HIS HANDWRITING where he tells his wife he no longer believes…..
    Let me get this straight, ur going to TRY to knock me for using wiki (even though I didn’t) and then you are going to send me a you tube video trying to prove the translations are correct? dude I watched the video, there is not A SHRED of evidence of anything, there just spouting a bunch of he says she says (which Is the only thing religion can do)…..now look at the flip side, I’m going off of actual letters that darwin wrote himself, they are different subjects, but this shows who actually is doing the correct type of research. IT IS POSSIBLE TO HOLD IN YOUR HANDS AND READ FOR YOURSELF THAT DARWIN WAS NO LONGER CHRISTIAN, but you are just quoting stuff you’ve heard, and you are wrong buddy! look it up, and not from other biased christians. You can see for yourself that darwin was not a christian

  125. And another thing macro, you are defending jesus freak, he said that fish got buried in the floods!! he said that bonobos are no longer around! he said that sir francis bacon USED THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD WITH CREATIONISM!

    I’m starting to think you and jesus freak are the same people becauseall those things he said are just Idiotic! and if you 2 would just do a little research then you’d see that darwin was not christian when he died, those were rumours that he said he was, but all of his children affirmed that those were just rumours.

    But really if you are defending a person who says fish got buried in a flood, you are either him, or you are just as retarded

  126. In my first paragraph I was not disagreeing with Jesus freak, just you and the “facts” written on this paper. And I did not say Darwin was a christian all his life. I said he was not an atheist his entire life and he never rejected that there was a God. Darwin never conclusively ruled out the existence of God and that he “knew there is plenty of room for God at the top, upstream of the business of biology” -Darwin. His words he said after his journey and the creation of evolutionist ideas close to when he died. And I know that the evidence does not support that Darwin died denying evolution. But I do know his last words were “Jesus Christ”. Perhaps this does not say he only believed in God but it says he never deny’ed that God existed.

    I was also not taking a shot at you over wikipedia. I was only saying that it seemed a lot of your rebuttals have come from their pages on Darwin and Evolution. If you haven’t used them as a source I applaud you.

    On the “flip side ” of Darwins letter to our Bible makes no sense because they are not connected to each other in any way shape or form and neither are they mirror images for creation and evolution viewpoints. So don’t act like they are connected. One are letters darwin and his wife wrote to each other concerning his personal relationship with God and his denial of salvation for the views of a “theory” he came up with while observing animals that actually support creation. He also never observed evolution happen because it is unobservable and there is no proof of it in the fossil record.
    The other is the most proved historical document of all time with 25,000 copies of it in translatable languages (and the originals In hebrew) along with thousands of extra documents from non-christian sources who never became christians who support the tales of the bible in their own writings along with 30 non christian eyewitnesses to the death and resurection of Jesus who were powerful figures in that day and never became christians. Some of them are Pilots wife and King Herod.
    Along with the 12 apostles who never deny’ed the resurection of Jesus even when 11 of them were tortured and killed and all they had to do was deny Christ and live. The 12th apostle was banished to an island for life because he wouldn’t deny Christ. And I challenge anyone to find contradictions in the bible that you will not find.
    So please anthony, don’t act like they’re related. They’re not.

    And 25,000 documents is a few more things to hold in my hand then a couple of letters. So I haven’t just heard this for myself. I know, I’ve seen them and observed them. And just because Darwin believed a flaw in science he expanded doesn’t make it true. Facts that support your belief do.

    On the flood, man, dude you can’t just say were retarded because we offered our viewpoint that you can’t deny and have no comeback for. That would make your case and views irrelevant. Not to mention you replying that way is beneath you, find a scientific reason why something is the way it is. And put facts to it that agree with science and evidence.

    Adressing Mr. Bacon and his views…

    “To conclude, therefore, let no man … think or maintain that a man can search too far or be too well studied in the book of God’s word, or in the book of God’s works; divinity or philosophy; but rather let men endeavor an endless progress or proficience in both.”
    The author is Francis Bacon, and the quotation is from his 1605 book The Advancement of Learning. Here is the classical statement that there are two ways of understanding the character of God, through the Bible, and through the world he has made. See? The scientific method IS creationism.

    Ive done my research. So think on your reply anthony and I hope you start seeing the flaws in a no God view. If you want to offer comments on evolution examples, would love to give replys to those. Have a great day and remember God loves you.

  127. @Anthony

    1. Calm down with the name calling 2. Darwin was a Christian 3. There are plenty of manuscripts and historical documents on the flood. 4. A fish can be buried quickly!!! A fish can only swim so fast when a large amount of water overtakes it and shoves it into the mud!!! Again, explain the large masses of fish that were buried together. They have been found around the world so don’t tell me that it is a rare phenomenon.

    @macro isn’t micro
    Dude you hit the nail on the head, you have covered so much info that I was about to comment. Good job, bro!!!

    @Anthony remember, if you take out the name calling, you seem more intelligent. The name calling simply shows that you have few arguments and then attack them using backless stabs in the dark by simply attacking them with names that have no base.

    I could call you a Mother******, but that would make me seem like I have run out of arguments and am trying to keep the fight going instead of admitting defeat. Also my God tells us not to cuss.

    Any questions or comments? Please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak.

  128. I think it would be best to back off for a second and look at why we’re arguing. On the topic of Evolution Christians effect Atheists very little. For the most part Evolution is taught in the classroom, and even if it wasn’t, you’re always free to teach your children your own beliefs (I say Evolution is a belief because you believe it to be true, not that it doesn’t have evidence behind it, i.e.: I believe I’m typing at a computer right now). But regardless, children knowing/believing in Evolution or Creationism or even the absence of either has no effect on Humanity’s progress. Inventions will continue to be made, wars will continue to be fought, atrocities will continue to be committed, and acts of kindness will still be made. If we were arguing as to whether or not Governmental action in Family matters is warranted that would be important because it effects us. This does not.

    Personally I am a Christian, not because of some conclusively proven fact that anyone can look at and believe. But because I felt him talk to me in an extremely powerful way, and that’s something I can’t shake. If I look at that “scientifically” I must decide whether I’m (literally) Psychotic, incredibly talented in convincing myself of falsehoods, or created by a loving God. Generally it’s wise to assume you’re not Psychotic so I’ll ditch that answer, I don’t believe that I’m the second answer (although even if I were I wouldn’t be able to tell) so I believe the third answer to be the most logical. This, however, ONLY APPLIES TO ME, this in no way is proof for anyone else because I was the one who experienced it and not them. If that had not happened to me I would be an atheist today. I can’t hope to understand why I was chosen and others were not, in the same way that I can’t hope to understand a creature so powerful that he could create the universe and all life in it.

    But on to the topic of discussion.

    I feel like Evolution has some great stuff behind it, and it certainly could be what God used to create the diversity of life we see today, but one of the major problems that I see is that of Chromosomes: there is a wide diversity of the number of Chromosomes in plants and animals, but we’ve never seen the possibility for a species to gain or loose chromosomes (aneuploidy) except for in a way that makes them unable to reproduce (sometimes by infertility, sometimes by weaknesses that make it impossible for the organism to live until adulthood etc.), nor have we observed it happening. The other, however weaker, argument that I find compelling is that evolution requires every step to be beneficial to the species, and that enough of the species needs to take the exact same step at the exact same time in order to continue to reproduce.

    Conversely I believe that Creationism happened (not sure if I believe in new-Earth though, there seems to be too much evidence against it), but most evidence for it can be interpreted differently, or invalidated. Also it does seem to have some mismatching with history: What about dinosaurs? The Flood/Pangaea. as well as the “great extinctions” that we’ve seen in the fossil records that the Bible just doesn’t really account for. So I’m forced to either believe that The Bible is really metaphorical, that the ancient history part of the bible is flawed/wrong, or that much of our scientific data is inaccurate. To which I choose the middle ground, the bible is rather metaphorical, the ancient history part of the bible isn’t really relevant to Christianity, and that much of our scientific data isn’t fully accurate (but it is pretty close) and neither is our interpretation of it.

    TL;DR: This really doesn’t have that much of an effect on our society, Believe in Christianity is highly personal and individualized and cannot be proven or disproven on a general scale. Evolution can’t explain Chromosomes, and Creationism has some scientific gaps of knowledge. I (however) choose to believe in Creationism because I believe in God and he highly recommended his favorite book. Again though, it doesn’t really matter.

  129. A cautious believer- if it didn’t matter life would be meaningless. There would be no morality, no one to choose right or wrong. What Hitler did would be right on a moral scale if he believed it. I could come and kill you and your family and it would be my opinion over yours. Life would have no meaning. And having a life on this earth is a small aspect of the life I will live forever in heaven. But what I do here, being commanded by God to serve and to save was the task given to me when I personally chose to become a christian. If it didn’t matter, if I evolved from nothing or if God didn’t care about the world then my life, my task on this earth would be for naught. So you say it doesn’t matter? It has every affect on our society. If people like George Washington and Abraham Lincon or our founding fathers didn’t believe in God and had his strength as their own we would not be a country today. We might live in an enslaved Nazi world. Without us as a country The Germans would probably rule the world. We as a country can do great things. Remeber that its because brave men chose faith. And how can you believe in creationism and not in a young earth? You don’t have to wait to be spoken to by God to believe in him. Read your bible. Open to the gospel books. Find meaning.

  130. Macro!Micro – I’m not saying whether one or the other is true matters, I’m saying this conversation doesn’t matter. More specifically, your assumption that without a belief in God there is no morality is preposterous. Everybody (well, almost everybody) condemns Hitler’s actions regardless of religion or belief on creation. Further, I’m not claiming that Christianity vs. Atheism doesn’t matter, I’m saying specifically Creationism vs. Evolution doesn’t matter. The actions of our Founding Fathers were not in any way a Christian action. England literally only enforced 1 tax, every. other. tax they ignored, they didn’t enforce, they were cool with letting slide. But 1 tax from England (levied in order to pay for a war that the Colonies started) was enough to seriously tick off the Colonies to the point of revolution? No, it was a money/land-grabbing opportunity that the colonists saw and grabbed, don’t make it anything more than what it is. Everything else that followed was them trying to find a stance to sound righteous standing on. But let’s look to India for a second. Based on another religion (not christianity at aaaalll) they still made great progress in Mathematics and science. Mahatma Gandhi essentially wrote all of MLKJ’s speeches for him when he peacefully protested England’s occupation. I believe in creationism and not young earth because I know that the bible is metaphorical (or do you wear clothes of only one fabric?) and don’t insist that the entire of Genesis must be taken literally for some abstract reason. It doesn’t matter to the message of the bible how much time took place, just that it happened. And as to my testimony of my conversion, that’s how I started, of course from there I took meaning from the bible and those around me. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be Christian now if He didn’t start the ball rolling. Nor (as I said before) am I saying that this is true for anyone else.

    TL;DR: Don’t be that guy who assumes that all good things come from your belief and can’t exist in a world without it (or to people who don’t believe it). America was founded on a scam (yeyaaaah controversy) Mahatma Ganhi rules, the bible is metaphorical in parts, my testimony isn’t true for anyone else.

    P.S.: I know it’s not quite the same discussion, but if we’re going to continue this you should first read this: http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10-things-christians-atheists-can-and-must-agree-on.html
    Not all of it is 100% accurate but the points are good.

  131. Oh yeah, I forgot to end my point there. Let’s look at 4 situations,
    A) You believe in Creationism and Creationism is true. You have morals from your society around you, and from God’s image being sacred
    B) You believe in Creationism and Evolution is true. You still believe in God’s image being sacred regardless of the truth, and you retained herd mentality from evolution, which includes morals on how we treat others.
    C) You believe in Evolution and Creationism is true. You follow the morals that God placed in your heart even if you don’t believe he did so.
    D) You believe in Evolution and Evolution is true. You follow the morals of your society around you because we retained our herd mentality, which includes how we treat others.

    No matter what system we’re in morals still exist, kindness still exists, love still exists. But more importantly Evolution Vs. Creation isn’t where this really pops up, God could have used Evolution, just using a more round-about path to create us in his image.

  132. A Cautious Believer-

    You are confused, EVERYONE in the world with the facts knows what Hitler did was wrong. You say almost everyone condemns what Hitler did was wrong, well that is because we as a world of people have the morals of God on our hearts. Except for certain people who deny it or try to think what hitler did was ok. Think about it you say morals from God are preposterous but if morals came from man every culture would be different. You think that that the whole world might have evolved/expanded and that we all came up with the same moral ideas? The world would be in chaos. The taliban and al qaeda would have every right as a people to kill and destroy Americans if they felt we had wronged them. It would be their moral view but from their mouths we know that they knew what they were doing was wrong. Without a divine being who governs the affairs of men’s actions we might have men who committed crime stand trial but they could never be convicted just for their actions. Their has to be a rule book put down that is outside the influence of men. God put them down in his word. We know from cameras at the Boston Marathon that the young bomber saw as he placed his bomb right next to an 8 year old boy. Yet if he was caught and convicted just for the ways of man then there was no crime. Man is sinful, murderous, and evil to a point. If we were left floundering on our own we would not have law. Men would feel no guilt. Yes would some men be powerful enough to avoid carnage for their lands, but the people in the land could commit any wrong they felt like because there are no eternal repercussions. Without Gods will life has no purpose and no point. It would be one man to another’s opinion. I refuse to believe that life is so meaningless.

    And if you think our struggle to become a country was a squabble over land you are also confused. Rebelling against our mother country would have been culturally wrong. Without the works of God that was a crime they could have been put to death for. God intervened for a weak province to make it a great country. Our constitution was written from the bible. Literally. A bible was next to it as it was written. And without George Washington, a God fearing man we would have won no battles. We would have fallen in a matter of days. His famous picture crossing the delaware was right after he and his army of farmers prayed to God to bring victory against the couple thousand strong profesional german army. Without the power of God we would have lost that battle. The odds were against us. Only a divine power would have won us that war. I should know. I lived on the east coast for 2 years studying the founding of our nation. I have so much more to say but I have to leave but I hope you got the meat of this.

  133. Micro!Macro – There are still a couple of handful of people out there so twisted and bigoted that they believe that Hitler didn’t do anything wrong, so I can’t say that “everyone” thinks he was wrong. But effectively yes, everyone thinks that what he did was wrong. Every culture IS different! Have you never heard of the Papa New Guinea tribes that value betrayal above all else? or what about Ancient China in which servitude, obedience, and blind devotion to your elders was valued? Then there’s the Western culture that values Freedom. And then there’s the Hedonists who value pleasure. The World you’re thinking of is a world that was created by God and then all of God’s presence was removed not of a world that never had God in it. If Evolution is true then it means that we got to here by Evolution. It means that the morals we have today got here by Evolution. I feel like you’re not getting this because this present is all that we can truly know. We’re here now, and if Evolution is truly what happened, and here and now we have morals, then morals are possible through Evolution. Again though you assume that non-christians are hell-beasts that are consumed by evil and hatred. Atheists don’t commit crimes because committing crimes is wrong (outside of Christianity even), and because it’s illegal and there are punishments. If there is no eternal repercussion, good or bad, then people will live life for the mortal repercussions that you have to live with in your life on earth.

    As to America’s founding. By law we should have been put to death (that’s what a war is about), but you seem to assume that by the fact that is happened it means that God blessed it? That’s just straight up untrue “the rain falls on the good and the evil, the rich and the poor”. Also: Everyone was christian at that time. Everyone. England was in fact the Christian center of the world at the time. You can’t have two God-fearing countries fight and say that the country that won believed in God more. But as to the bible being near the Constitution as it was being drafted, so all things done by people who call themselves Christians (you can’t personally know about George Washington’s relationship with God) are good and right and blessed by God? Come on man, you know that’s not true.

    Finally, heck no were we at a disadvantage, England had to sail across an entire ocean to fight us, to resupply their troops, and to hear how the war was doing. All of this for some colonies that didn’t even pay them taxes in the first place.

    But to back it up a bit, it’s just as unfair to assume that all Atheists are evil as evidenced by Hitler as it is to assume that all Christians are evil are evidenced by Westboro Baptist Church. Hitler was motivated by his belief in a twisted form of evolution (i.e. his race was superior and therefore could subjugate all others) and Westboro is motivated by their belief in a twisted form of Creationism/Christianity (i.e. that God’s Wrath should be applied to all who break his laws). On the flip side, Atheists have made most of the medical advancements that save lives every day, which was prompted by their search for truth/knowledge and by their desire to help their fellow man (and also to get rich in the process) which they have without faith in God, and Christians like Mother Teresa and countless charities have helped people all over the world, prompted by their desire to love, help, and nurture others which they have with faith in God.

  134. Cautious Believer-
    You wrong if you think I think all people are evil or I judge them because they are not a christian. I don’t judge or hate anybody, some peoples views don’t agree with what God says in the bible (yours for example) and for that I try and show them the way. I do not change people, God does. And from studies we see that without a God who gave moral values we would be a chaotic world that would have collapsed in on itself many years ago. Obviously I can’t make you see that and you can’t make me see your point of view. I just hoped you see that some stuff goes against God and his word.

    Looking at your relationship with God I think you need to open your bible and take a look at why you believe the way you do. I in turn will study more of your viewpoint. But you seem to think that you can believe God had the world created in evolution. This is a very limited viewpoint or belief because short of the first atom popping into existence by God you can’t have an entire universe come from nothing. That is evolutions view and after millions of years we got to the point we are today by random chance or even science is nuts. Nothing in evolution has ever been proved, not the fossil record, not macro evolution, not scientific mutation, not that we evolved from apes or vice versa, or the fact that we evolved and God let us flounder on our own until we were smart enough to think and listen. This is crazy, we have each been created specifically by God for a purpose and it says in the bible that God knows us better then we know ourselves.

    And sir, if you think God spoke to you and you have never opened your bible and believed Jesus died and rose again or someone explained it to you then you are not a christian. You do not have a personal relationship with God or Jesus. And believing in evolution doesn’t help or agree with the bible or how God states the creation of the world in the book of Genesis. Your close though, HE is close. It says in the bible believe in the lord Jesus and you will be saved. All you have to do is pray, or talk out loud and in your heart believe that God sent his son to die and take all the sin and wrongs of the world on his shoulders for us. And that he rose again form the dead and is alive in heaven at the right hand of God. God is a loving god. Why a divine being with that power would choose to create and save us is something only God knows to the fullest. What we do know is that we are created in Gods own image (Genesis 1:27) and that we are separated from God by sin. Now relize God did not create sin. Sin comes from Satan and mans want for uplifting power. God does not let sin happen. God cannot stand to be in the presence of sin, that is why he sent Jesus to save us. A man who never sinned. The bible refers to him as “The unblemished lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”. Yes sometimes God allows Suffering and Death to occur. Even if we don’t understand why at the time God tells us that it is for a purpose and I have seen many examples where God used something bad for good. Now sin is a personal choice which all of us make, even christians. I sin probably every day, I’m no different then anyone else but because I believe what Jesus told us to believe and I know that I am saved and when I die here I will live with him forever in heaven. I fear death but I do not fear what comes after death. That is one of the greatest things about God is. I don’t have to worry if world population will explode or an apocalypse will occur or even where my next meal will come from. I know God will provide. And if you experiance this too then I am so happy for you and your life.

    I know that is a lot to take in and that you might have misgivings. So did I. A book that really helped me choose was I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist by Frank Turek and Norman Gueslur. It offers explanations on how to look at all these questions and different views and really helped me decide for sure I could be 100% positive in my belief. And you don’t need to believe in God to accomplish great things but with God we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Look back on the men who changed the world for the good of us all. They were christians. But even if you don’t believe in God it is still possible to accomplish great things. That I wouldn’t deny.

    And finally really quick on Mr. Washington’s beliefs. I do know he was a christian from the words he wrote on paper about his belief in God and Salvation. Also we have letters and journals from his soldiers about what a deep man of the faith he was. Some of these I’ve seen for myself. Along with letters and words of all the founding fathers as they state their beliefs and how we were a nation built on the Word of God. And i’m sorry but know matter how big an ocean there was we would still have lost to the greatest superpower of the world at the time if not for God. And addressing civilizations that their primary aspect was to sin, remember, We all have whats write written on our heart but we all choose to ignore it at sometime or another. Even Christians. And not trying to guilt trip you here but there are eternal repruccussions. If you don’t believe in God and his Son way by the time you die you will spend eternity seperated from God. For it says that some day every knee will bow and every tong will confess he is God. I hope the world is ready for his return.

    So with these last few words I thank you for all of your time and everything you’ve said and shared about your beliefs. I have never met someone with your exact viewpoint before and talked to them in this serious of a discussion and I tell you it has been a pleasure. Know that this reply was not meant to be an argument with you, only to try and show you. I have loved listening to your take on things and hope to read up further on your ideas and ideals as a person. And know that I do not judge you, only love you as an Intelligent human being. Hope your days are great and filled with joy And the love of God.

  135. Dude, I am a strong believer in God, I read the bible before I fully became a believer, and I continue to read the bible after I became a believer. I’ve fully accepted Jesus into my heart and life so chill dude. I’ll make a post talking about the arguments of Evolution Vs. Creationism later but I just want you to know I am a believer, I just choose to remain Cautious to keep myself from assumptions and arrogance.

  136. Umm ya its just a bit annoying when people just keep repeating the same crap with no proof, everything I say has evidence, yall are just repeating what you’ve been told your whole lives, you can’t let go, you are afraid to come to the realization that we don’t know what’s going to happen when we die, and that its more then likely NOTHING. you are all just pussies stuck in your fantasies and you are all bringing the world DOWN in your ignorance. RELIGION IS NOT LOVE AND PEACE. its believe our way OR BURN IN HELL…. you can’t say I’m wrong there now can you?
    I dont believe Iin your god (who is white, even though he was born in the middle east over 2000 years ago HAHA! and who you wwouldn’t believe in if you were born in the middle east, muslim, or india you’d be hindu, or asia you’d be buddhist!) I don’t believe YOUR god so I’m going to spend eternity in hell??

    I’ve been good to everyone my entire life, I’ve been treated like crap by religous nuts just. like you guys, I would never kill, I do not steal…. I live and let live, thatis my lifes motto, yet I’m going to burn in helI? you guys are god damned right that pisses me off, how can you be so blind? faith is BLIND HOPE.

    Believe me, I don’t want to just become part of the ground when I die, I’d love to wake in a new life form and continue on…
    I was born christian, my mom forced me into it and I used to pray and pray and love and share, no I was by no means perfect, but I grew up in a world where the good suffer and die, and the evil men prevail.
    And all them miracles in the bible sure sound nice, why don’t they happen anymore? how come the angels stopped visiting? how come there is no modern day noah? or a new story to get us to believ?l why has it all stopped? wake up people and quit judging others, we need to deal with what we have now

    this world is going down the tubes in a fuckin hurry, SOME RELIGOUS PEOPLE ARE GOOD, but some rape little boys, some get you to pay for their church so they can live a lavish lifestyle. I’ve heard good christians talk about how a buddhist (possibly the most gentle and loving people on this earth) is going to burn in hell.

    I’ve said it before and Il say it again, IM AGNOSTIC, THERE VERY WELL COULD BE A CREATOR, BUT HE ISNT THE TERRIBLE, VENGEFUL, JEALOUS GOd you christians speak of…. you guys just divide the human race further… wake up, like I said the earth is going down the drain. (and tons of religous people thinkit because proprohecy is being fulfilled, so you sit by and let it happen….. you are not helping the world…. I have a son, iwant him to witness the world and space and all nature has…. FUCK YOUR RELIGION AND FUCK YOUR EVIL GOD

  137. I have plenty of proof for Creation. @Anthony 1. Dude the “Christians” and religious people that rape little boys are actually not Christian, but say they are because they want to be “safe”. We don’t force you to pay for the church, it is an option, but we don’t force it. Sir, Christianity is an option. We do not force you to accept it. I am presenting it as an option.

    Anthony, God almost destroyed the earth and everything in it, but instead sent his son, Jesus, to die for you. Because HE LOVED YOU. God is not evil, he provided a way to be saved. If his son hadn’t have died a torturous death, you wouldn’t even have a choice to get to heaven in the first place. BUT HE LOVED YOU ENOUGH TO SEND HIS SON TO DIE AND SAVE YOU. Trust me, if he was an evil God, he wouldn’t care about you, or even me, a devout Christian. He cares about you, and that is why he made a way.

    About the question of why angels don’t appear or why God doesn’t speak in a booming voice. God has something called the Bible, which gives you everything you need. When Jesus was on earth, he made miracles that were humanly impossible. There is plenty of proof that this happened because there are Roman documents and Jewish documents that explain this.

    Bottom line: If God didn’t care about you, then I wouldn’t be telling you about this, and you wouldn’t have a choice.

    If you have any questions or comments. Please reply.

    The awesome Creationist,
    I don’t care if you label me a Jesus Freak

  138. This article is riddled with inaccuracies.

    Firstly, the DNA of humans and chimps is not 98% similar, this figure is based upon very incomplete studies done in the 1970’s. As others have pointed out, it is a much lower percentage. Regardless of how similar the DNA is, this in no way proves that we descended from a common ancestor. Again, as others have pointed out, we have a relatively high percentage of DNA similarity to many other things, yet evolutionists do not claim common ancestry for those.

    Secondly, To claim “Evolution does not propose origins of life.” is is pure obfuscation because the materialist must still explain the origin of life to present a coherent view of reality, regardless of whether they can play word games with the matter. Those trained in the sciences of life, such as molecular biology, know that the origin of life is a lost cause, so some want to put it aside as ‘not part of evolution’ because it is a gaping hole in the naturalists’ argument. However, almost every major university includes the origin of life as part of evolution in introductory biology courses.

    Thirdly, natural selection is NOT proof of evolution, Natural selection cannot create any new genes to make evolution progress. Natural selection can only sort existing genetic information, so demonstrations of it are not demonstrations of evolution. Whether it is a polar bear or brown grizzly bear, it is still a bear and descended from the two bears that were with Noah on the arc. The differences between the two are as a result of a loss of genetic information, not from a gain of information. As I said, they are still bears and their descendants will always be bears.

    Fourthly, “Mutations are not always beneficial because evolution is unguided; it has no foresight.” Exactly!! Mutations are very rarely beneficial and, if they are, ALWAYS come at a cost. Because evolution is unguided and has no foresight, it is impossible. It is like a blind man with no guide trying to walk through a forest without bumping into a tree; it ain’t ever going to happen, no matter how many times he tries. Evolution requires new information to be added and mutations do not meet this requirement. And time is no ally to evolution. There are many events that just will never happen in a time-and matter-finite universe. The impossible does not become certain by adding time. Water does not flow uphill, no matter how much time is allowed. The origin of new DNA programming is akin to getting water to flow uphill; natural processes head in the wrong direction for them to create a coded information processing system as well as all the actual coded instructions. In 2008, 16 of the world’s top evolutionists met, by invitation, in Altenberg, Austria. Their purpose was to discuss the crisis in evolutionary biology because many of them had come to see that the supposed mechanisms of mutations and natural selection did not explain the diversity of life. The only consensus was that there is a major problem.

    Fifth, there is not a single living organism that has ever been discovered that shows any sign, whatsoever, of having evolved at all without the assumption that it evolved in the first place. There is no proof that any living organism evolved, only speculation about its origins. Saying something evolved does not make it true. Again, natural selection is NOT evolution. To say that only religious fundamentalists believe what I’ve just said, is just a ridiculous statement. I have read many testimonies of people who were not Christians who became Christians because the “facts of evolution” just don’t stack up and their examination of the evidence contradicted evolution time and time again.

    Sixth. “The vast majority of evolutionary biologists are practicing Christians.” Say what?! The vast majority of evolutionary biologists are not Christians but atheists, agnostics at best. To say otherwise is just contrary to the facts. Whether the official dogma of the Catholic church is that “evolution theory is not incompatible with a belief in the bible” is irrelevant to the argument over whether evolution is fact or fiction. However, since you have brought it up, well-known evolutionists actually agree with Creationists that evolution and the Christian faith are incompatible. In fact, Richard Dawkins believes that theistic evolutionists are deluded, and it is seen time and time again that young people who have grown up in a christian home have rejected God because they have been indoctrinated in the evolutionary “facts” and cannot reconcile that with a loving Christian God. If it is true that Evolution is compatible with Christianity, why do the ‘new atheists’, in their zeal to stamp out belief in God spend so much time promoting and defending evolution with its billions of years of imaginary time? And why aren’t more high-profile evolutionists ‘religious’, and more specifically, Christians who acknowledge the authority of the Bible in all matters of which it speaks? Why is it that organisations set up to prevent criticism of evolution are so anti-Christian?

    Seventh, “Darwin did not set his theories in stone, rather he hoped that future generations of naturalists would disprove his many claims.” No, he was hoping that future generations would PROVE his claims because he lacked the evidence to do so himself. “We have yet to find any compelling evidence that might falsify any aspect of natural selection.” Again, NATURAL SELECTION IS NOT EVOLUTION!!!! More to the point, we have yet to find any compelling evidence that proves evolution.

    Eighth, “If you believe in things that you cannot prove, that does not constitute a reason for others to do the same.” Good point! Science has not proven evolution to be true, so evolutionists have no right to force into the education system, no right to proclaim it as fact and no right to resort to labeling disbelievers of evolution as narrow-minded bigots who’s belief defies logic and common sense. Evolutionists often resort to “The scientific consensus is that evolution is a fact.” Regarding appeals to consensus, Michael Crichton said this: “There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.” Furthermore, when we examine the way in which ‘consensus’ is achieved on evolution, we can see that it is no measure of truth. Effectively anyone who dares to question the prevailing evolutionary paradigm is denied a place of influence among the science fraternity. No scientist who wants to progress in academia will dare step out of line. There are plenty of examples of what happens to the wayward to ‘warn’ any would-be dissenters. There are even organizations operating to protect evolution from any criticism! Finally, much of this ‘consensus’ was achieved by counting heads that themselves arrived at the ‘consensus’ by counting heads.

    Ninth, to claim Darwin was a devout Christian is to rewrite history and his autobiography. He labelled himself an agnostic and rejected the doctrines of Christianity. No, abandoning reason and fair mindedness does not bring you closer to Jesus, absolutely true! In fact, it will, as a Christian, lead you away from Jesus. Faith and facts are not factors to be divided between. Faith is confirmed by facts. Blind faith, however, is a different matter. Blind faith perseveres in spite of the facts. The majority of the population believe in evolution without question because it is supposedly a “proven fact”. They fail to acknowledge the assumptions upon which evolution is based and fail to think for themselves about the implications of what is being taught to them. This is blind faith.

    Tenth, I cannot comment on American politics with regard to who’s for Darwinism economics who’s against, as I have no interest in American politics whatsoever, but here, in Australia, during the recession of 1990, a major Australian newspaper had issued a dramatic call for ‘the churches to “preach” ethics and morals to the embattled Australian business community”. Why? Because they clearly saw the link between declining morality and the then-deteriorating economic health of our country. High-flying entrepreneurs, who were public heroes in the 80’s, had been increasingly revealed as, at best, irresponsible paper shufflers creating artificial debt bubbles, and at worst, corporate criminals whose schemes were done through loop-holes on the very edge of the law. They had severely damaged this country to the tune of many billions of dollars, for which all Australians were going to have to pay. This is a cycle that has been recently repeated with the Global Financial Crisis. To blame this on “evangelical conservatives” is ridiculous. A Christian, true to his/her beliefs, would never submit to the Darwinian belief which concluded that it is natural and proper to exploit without limits both ‘weaker’ persons and weaker businesses. To do so, would be hypocritical and a betrayal of one’s Christian beliefs. Yes, there are some Christians in business who would act in such a manner, but the majority of Christian business people would, just as the majority of people regardless of belief would, act in a moral way. However, the problem is with those who don’t, and the vast majority of those would not be Christian and view the world as a place to be exploited.

    Finally, the following appears on both creation.com and answersingenesis.org;

    “With savages, the weak in body and mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of everyone to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands who, from a weak constitution, would formerly have succumbed to smallpox. Thus the weak members of civilised society propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but, excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed. The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered in the manner previously indicated more tender and more widely diffused. Nor can we check our sympathy, even without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature … We must, therefore, bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind. (Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 2nd ed., pp. 133–134, 1887)”

    Blows your theory out of the water that “because creationists only listen to each other, the only time this fact is alluded to, in creationist propaganda, it is in an edited format”. There you have it, what you quoted plus some. Regardless, leading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwin’s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies. Therefore, it is not creationists who assert a link between the heinous acts of mass genocide, carried out by Hitler and Darwin’s ideas. It comes directly from those involved. This just another example of an evolutionist ignoring the facts and claiming that the creationists are making stuff up.

  139. Some comments:
    1) You state Evolution does not deal with the origins of life. Fact, If there is no life, then there is no evolution. If God created life, it is not logical that He only created a single celled life form.

    2) You say natural selection is genetic. It is not. Natural selection deals only with what is present. If there are competing life forms that the one that breeds more prolifically, faster,breeding, better at getting the food, probably open to a wider selection of food, more resistant to disease and other factors will statistically speaking end up surviving. However, since evolutionists insist that the most unlikely of changes occur, than you have to accept that natural selection can result in the worst surviving. Natural selection is an external factor, not internal. It only is a process that deals with the results of the genetic change.

    3) You say there are factors in the genetics that cause change. My understanding, though I agree I have no significant science training, is there is several genetic devices to prevent evolutionary change. There is no process to cause change in the genes. The process is external to genes. Radiation, chemical, random genetic damage to the sperm or ovum ect. The problem is the changes that occur to cause a beneficial change is as likely as hitting the jackpot on a slot machine. In fact I think you are more likely to hit the jackpot on the slot machine three consecutive times than have a positive change. A second problem that occurs, the having the change carry on into new generations. IOf the change causes you to be unable to breed with the parental species, there must be at least a second compatible automaton to have this chance carry on Again Natural selection would allow mules to survive better for this generation,in preference to horses and donkeys if they were more disease resistant, faster, stronger and any other advantage for the current survival, but the fact that I believe they are sterile and unable to reproduce does have a draw back. Tat would mean the will not survive beyond, the first generation.

    4) There are significant theological issues that say the Christian Creation account and Jewish creation account are not compatible with the theory of evolution.

    The Big bang theory says that the Theory of Relativity is garbage.

    The Big Bang theory only works if the second Law of Thermal Dynamics is false.

    The Big Bang theory seems to have a directional problem from what I have seen of the diagrams of the universe they speak of.

    Now the Christian Creation story is consistent with thee Theory of Relativity. Works with the Second Law of Thermal Dynamics, understanding the exception that intelligence or outside forces can temporarily cancel or delay the effects of the law.

    Evolution contradicts the Second Law, as well as genetic law and the Biogenesis law. The Christian Creation is in compliance with them.

    There is evidence that radiometric dating has serious problems. Problems have been shown to have happened: Trees growing through millions of years of strata. Millions of years old rock encasing some material that is less then one hundred thousand years old. Mt St Helene’s rocks dated in the millions of years. Evidence has been found that any radiometric dating with rocks from magma will be faulty, giving massively exaggerated dates. See the Rate project on the Christian Scince site.

  140. Here’s a biologist who is apparently a believer in Creation:
    “In conclusion, evolution is not observable, repeatable, or refutable and thus does not qualify as either a scientific fact or theory. Evolution must be accepted with faith by its believers, many of whom deny the existence, or at least the power, of the Creator. Similarly, the Biblical account of creation is not observable, repeatable or refutable by man. Special creation is accepted with faith by those who believe that the Bible is the revelation of an omnipotent and omniscient Creator whose Word is more reliable than the speculations of men. Both evolution and creation, however, can be compared for their compatibility with what we do observe of the facts of nature. In the months ahead, we will see that creation by intelligent design is a vastly more reasonable explanation for the origin of the complexity we see in living things than is evolution by mere chance and the intrinsic properties of nature.”

    Dr. Menton received his Ph.D. in Biology from Brown University. He has been involved in biomedical research and education for over 30 years. http://www.bestbiblescience.org/theory.htm

  141. btw im thirteen and I got all of that! it was so easy to understand. on the other hand why would you believe all of that crap? if Darwin was a christian why didn’t he lead others to God? I just cant believe that you people that stuff.

  142. Ah the great Dr. Menton, a man who was exposed as a fraud, close ties with Kent Hovind, and taken out of the classroom for unethical teaching practices. Can you try giving an example of someone who’s not a hack? I love how the religitards make up their own versions of the theory of relativity, the Big Bang, etc and expect us to not check facts or demand evidence for such claims as “the big bang theory interprets the theory of relativity as garbage” . It’s no use arguing with creationists because every one of their statements is filled with purgery, outright lies, and cherry picked quotes taken out of context. But hey, that’s the only ground they have to stand on, so might as well fool as many as possible! After all, fundies don’t care about what science can teach us, yet they rely on scientific progress on a daily basis while giving no credit to the people responsible. They only care about the political aspect because what they really want is power and control, like they always have throughout history.

  143. Not to mention that Dr. Menton has never actually studied evolutionary theory, which makes every half brained argument he presents null. I’ve read his arguments and it’s clear that he is well paid by apologists to carry on the same arguments (literally… the exact same arguments verbatim) that Ken Ham, Hovind, and other well known frauds make. They are just using his “dr” status as a leverage point. Not that it matters because he doesn’t have a doctorate in evolutionary studies, so he has no room for making a professional case against evolution in the first place! I also find it interesting that for all the peer reviewed journals on anatomy and dermatology he’s made, not once did he ever take the time to make a solid case or write any peer reviewed journal (and if he did, they were rejected as nonsense) on creationism. Finally, it always looks bad when one of your closest colleagues and men he looks up to is a known con-man and a fraud. Just thought I would re-iterate that…

  144. There was a request by Nate for references to show the rate of comparison is high. The non Creation Science site says in 3.1 that five to ten percent of the genes were excluded. They are human and do not match chimpanzee. A second section admits a second drop of the total coverage, possibly random drop by method not choice.

    http://www.genome.gov/pages/research/sequencing/seqproposals/chimpgenome2.pd

    Sequencing Strategy
    We propose the following sequencing strategy.
    3.1 Coverag
    e. Genomic sequence would be obtained from
    3−4×
    whole-genome shotgun
    (WGS) coverage from paired-end reads. Gi
    ven the extremely high degree of sequence
    identity between human and chimpanzee, it
    is straightforward to align chimpanzee
    sequence directly to finished human sequence – with two exceptions. (1) The first
    exception is the small proportion of the human
    genome consisting of sequence that is
    duplicated with extremely high fidelity (for bot
    h sequences from the paired ends) and (2)
    the second exception is any region of the
    chimpanzee genome not present in the human
    9
    .
    A total of 3
    ×
    coverage will cover 95% of the chimpan
    zee genome in theory and is likely
    to cover at least 90% in pract
    ice (allowing for cloning bias).

    3.3 Number of reads
    . We would suggest approximately 2.
    5 ×
    , 0.

    and 0.0

    coverage
    in plasmids, fosmids and BACs, respectivel
    y. (Assuming 500 bp reads, 80% pass rate and
    70% pairing rate, this would correspond to
    clone numbers of ~10.3 M plasmids; 0.75 M
    fosmids; and ~0.2 M BACs and a total of 22.5
    M attempted reads. Each clone type would
    provide roughly 20-fold physical coverage.
    The total number of reads would decrease
    with greater read length or higher pass rates.)
    The exact distribution shoul
    d be re-assessed in light
    of continuing technology
    evolution.

    3.4 Individuals for sequencin
    g. We would propose that plas
    mid libraries be prepared
    from a number of different individuals
    – for example, five chimpanzees (i.e., 10
    chromosomes) at 0.

    each. In addition, the fosmid and
    BAC libraries would be derived
    from different individuals.
    By sequencing different i
    ndividuals, one has the a
    dded opportunity to explore
    polymorphisms in the chimpanzee population. (Such a strategy might be risky with a
    more distant organism in which de novo assemb
    ly would be routinely required and could
    be complicated by polymorphism. However,
    this is not a serious issue for the
    chimpanzee.)
    Given 3
    ×
    coverage obtained in this fashi
    on, about 80% of the genome would be
    covered to at least 2
    ×
    depth and thus would be suscep
    tible to SNP discovery. Given the
    reported rate of polymorphism in chimpanzee
    25
    , this would yield a catalogue of more than
    4M SNPs within the chimpanzee population, at
    an average density exceeding 1 per 750
    bp.
    The chimpanzees would be selected fr
    om the eastern, central and western
    populations, to maximize diversity.

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    ../ /………….\_________ ,/….
    .//………….____//___ __\\__/.

  146. @Nate “It’s no use arguing with creationists because every one of their statements is filled with perjury, outright lies, and cherry picked quotes taken out of context.”

    Interesting comment, as many evolutionists on blog sites such as this do exactly that without actually thinking about the arguments put forward by creationists. A prime example is your ridicule of the person who quoted Dr Menton. Now I don’t know anything about Dr Menton, but the quote used “Ms SpoolTeacher” seems reasonable but, rather than falsifying anything in the quote, instead you dismiss it on the basis of your preconceived ideas of the person from whom the quote came.

    Which part of this quote is incorrect? Which part can be proven wrong? “Evolution is not observable, repeatable, or refutable and thus does not qualify as either a scientific fact or theory. Evolution must be accepted with faith by its believers, many of whom deny the existence, or at least the power, of the Creator. Similarly, the Biblical account of creation is not observable, repeatable or refutable by man.” Which part can be proven wrong?

    Similarly, how have you gone in responding to those who have addressed many of the so-called 10 facts of Darwinian evolution young-earth creationists don’t want to understand? You haven’t!! Is that because it’s just too hard for you to do and makes too much sense? So, instead, you go off on a tangent and attack irrelevant points of the argument and neglect confronting the real issues.

    The theory of evolution, put simply, is based entirely on assumptions, speculation and excuses. It assumes evolution as fact, speculates as to how it happened and then makes excuses as to why we don’t see any indisputable evidence for it.

  147. This is true. Just because they are similar does not mean one came from another….but that’s not the only thing that proves evolution to be true. Pulling out one fact and saying its “bananas” doesn’t prove your case at all.

  148. Hello Faith, okay then you are saying that there are other things that prove evilution is true, choose one and I will show you how it is not proof but Faith. (meaning no more than a belief that something is true and not a fact that it is) One “fact” at a time please. I am only an average man of average intelligence, it may take me a moment to respond to scientific jargon. I say that because I am assuming that you will need to use science to state your “fact”

  149. I have been to that site many times, I prefer to think for myself, understanding that all I know I have acquired from other sources. Except for my own thoughts, which are some I regard as quite unique in the world or universe for that matter. For everything that man has created came from his thoughts, look around you and see all that has been created by the mind of man. Surely there are questions about evilution that plague even you, as there are questions about our creation that plague me as well. When you do look around and see so many of the things that man has created do you not look with awe and wonder. The truth will be the truth when it is discovered/revealed nothing we say will change what that is. I believe all science is doing is discovering how we were created, however evilution is only a system of cataloging what was created by pure thought. This is beginning to be understood by science more and more everyday. Tell me what you believe in both your heart and your head about anything concerning evolution, creation, etc. and we will have a discussion rather than a debate. If you are game.

  150. 10. That was thought to be true about 40 years ago, the current view I believe is around 80%.

    9. Natural selection is not evolution. Evolution tries to explain how life-forms get new genetic material (i.e. the type that could give cats wings) through mutations. Natural selection just selects EXISTING genetic material so that the best equipped life-form for it’s environment is more likely to survive and thus the overall of the specie stays somewhat fit. Natural selection had been known to make fish BLIND because they were better off in caves as they weren’t hitting there eyes and injuring themselves Another example would beetles loosing their wings in an island that had strong wings, they were better off because they weren’t blown away off the cliffs. So what happened here? Mutations arose, natural selection did it’s job, and we have diversity within the same kind. Was that evolution? No! Evolution would require new genetic material, here we have a loss of genetic material.
    The best cases of mutations are neutral, such as change of size of beak on a bird, that bird is then able to feed on different insects and you now have diversity within the same kind. Again not evolution, just mutations and natural selection.
    BTW. Did you know that Edward Blyth, a creationist, talked about natural selection (not in those words) in his book published in 1835 around 25 years before Darwin did?

    Also the problem with what you’re saying here …”Gene theory and palaeontology are two completely separate areas of study that just so happen to support each other”, is that:
    a. What we see today (I.E. Natural selection) doesn’t imply evolution. Actually evolution has never been observed.
    b. You’re making it look like scientist aren’t biased. The truth is that if you don’t believe in God, you cannot let an interpretation that includes not having transitional fossils. Good examples of that are the Nebraska man and Neanderthal Man. The Nebraska Man was supposed to be an apeman, what was actually found was a single pig tooth. Now tell me, were they scientist biased? If the theory of evolution hadn’t been around, would someone really have concluded that that a pig tooth was the remain from an apeman?
    As to the Neanderthal man, he was first pictured as an apeman, and is now pictured pretty much as a human, look at the newest representations, imagine them clean, shaved, groomed, walking straight and with a suit on, and you wouldn’t notice them in the street! You would certainly not think they weren’t fully evolved humans!

    8. Evolution needs an origin of life, and what is it called? Abiogenesis. Otherwise known as CHEMICAL EVOLUTION. Hmmm funny huh?

    7. In this point, I realize there is a difference between survival of the fittest and natural selection, but I’m assuming that you’re using them to be the same.
    You now seem to know the difference between survival of the fittest and evolution.

    6. “Not a single living organism that has ever been discovered shows any sign, whatsoever, of having evolved by non-Darwinian means.”
    You’re talking to people who don’t believe in evolution and then talk to them as if evolution is an already established fact. That’s a logical fallacy my friend.

    “There are no known species of any living organism anywhere on Earth that can not be fully described by evolution theory”
    Again, scientist are biased. According to the current family line of species (sorry, I can’t think of the name for it, but you know what I mean) the eye must have evolved over 30 different times! One minute, scientist are saying that the eye is complicated, and the other, they are saying that it has evolved many different times!

    5. Sorry, I don’t know enough about market economics to be able to answer that.

    4 Don’t know where you got those stats, reading so many comments would take a while, if you bothered to read the comments + edit, why not just put it in the article? The fact that you didn’t, makes it look a bit suspicious.
    Apart from that, some Christians might believe in evolution but that plainly goes against the Bible and it’s chore teaching. The Bible is clear on a creation week, is clear on the human race coming from two people. Not only that but without a first Adam you don’t have a last Adam that Paul argues about (Christ) no Christ = no gospel. If God made things good, “good” includes the death and pain of evolution, and if God is going to restore things as they were in the beginning, it might be better not to be His follower.

    3.I agree with pretty much everything that is said except that… “Darwin did not set his theories in stone, rather he hoped that future generations of naturalists would DISPROVE his many claims. Since then, this is what biologists, palaeontologists, geneticists, chemists, anthropologists and every other discipline in science has sought to achieve”
    I don’t believe it’s since then (i.e. Darwin) that scientists have sought to do that.

    You also say…”We have yet to find any compelling evidence that might falsify any aspect of natural selection, despite that the scientific method is geared towards doing exactly that.”
    Again you seem to forget that natural selection isn’t evolution nor proves evolution. You seem to say it is or isn’t whenever it fits you best.
    Natural selection has been observed and is accepted by all scientists, theists and atheists alike. Evolution has NEVER ONCE been observed but is accepted by atheists. But this is not science.
    A good definition of science goes like this…
    observation → induction → hypothesis → test hypothesis by experiment → proof/disproof → knowledge.
    Evolution has never been observed, inducted, tested by experiments, proved. The theory of evolution isn’t science by this definition.
    It is, however, forensic science. But as any forensic science, it is always subject to the bias of the one conducting it. Picture a court case, for example, where a man is on trial for murder, the forensics on the defense will present the information in such a way that one will think of him as innocent, while the forensics on the opposite side will make it look like he is guilty. So it is with evolution, atheist scientists are biased against having an interpretation of God, young-earth, world-wide flood and so on (and yes, vice-versa, but we’re not calling it “proven science”)

    2. You seem to be proving my last point on that.
    I agree, scientists are men with opinions of their own. Nothing more, nothing less. Some of their opinions are based upon irrefutable facts and some are not. Atheism and science are not two sides of the same coin. Science and scientists are two completely different things, just as are what you believe and what you can prove. If you believe in things that you can not prove (see last point!), that does not constitute a reason for others to do the same.
    I don’t know where I got the inspiration to say this, it just came out of me! I wish everyone would take these words to heart though!

    1. An acceptance of evolution means a logical rejection of Jesus and the Bible. If I cannot believe Jesus when He says “have you not heard that in the beginning He made them male and female” I cannot believe him when He says “I am the way, the truth and the way, no one comes to father except though Me.”
    You’re trying to equal not believing in evolution with “abandoning reason and fair mindedness”, it’s not blind faith like Mormons believing that Native Americans are descendants of Jews while science (not forensic science) has shown that they are of Asian descent. It’s faith backed up by facts.
    BTW At least check your facts and check your quotes before you call people names. But you did more than that, you actually called them facts. Nice! But what can I say? I’m just fair minded according to you, aren’t I?

    Nazi
    Let’s put it like that, if the theory of evolution wasn’t around at the time of the Hitler, would he have tried to:
    make a breed of half-men half-apes to use in his army?
    conserve the “superior” Aryan race?
    kill all disabled people?
    kill all “inferior” races?

    And please don’t try and say that Christians have done atrocities too because they were going against their supposed beliefs, an ultimate judgement, while the Nazis were being consistent with their beliefs, that human life is unimportant, that there is no right and wrong, that there is a superior race (remember, we came out of Africa, so which is the less evolved? Whites or blacks? The Bible says none, evolution says one might be over the other.).
    I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t kill for those reasons, but evolution hasn’t taught you that. Living in a country that is against that stops you from doing that. If you lived in a place like that, you would, because that’s just a logical consequence of evolution.

    Descent of Man

    The full quote taken from here
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Notable_Charles_Darwin_misquotes

    “With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

    The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected”

    Look at this… ” [helping the helpless] could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil”
    It’s a benefit with evil, but then again, what is evil in life? Nothing in evolution allows for evil to exist. So if it’s not for society saying so, it’s purely benefit! Which is what happened with the Nazis

    Darwin also hoped that the weaker wouldn’t be able to have offsprings!
    It’s ironic that according to him, no one should have children, because we now know that each new (human) babies has around 60 mutations which are either neutral (such as change of eye colour) or damaging. So if we carry on like this, the human race will eventually be so unfit that it won’t be able to carry on. And even if mutations that actually add information (never been observed) actually happen let’s say one in a trillion (I’m being generous as the actual known number is none), you still have over 3/4 of the rest of them that damage, resulting in an unfit specie anyways.
    Obviously we can’t have been there for millions of years as we would’ve received the damaging mutations from our ancestors, the apes, which would’ve received more from wherever they are supposed to have come from and so on…. You get my drift.

    You wrote this article quite a few years back, but I saw there were replies to that relatively recently.

    As for me, I don’t think your fair minded, you’ve just not really checked you facts.

  151. Wow. A lot of hate and even more stupidity. I live in the US, born and raised in the south. I grew up in church with a deep love for God. I also grew up to be a thinker. For me the thing that has always made the most sense, and for the life of me I don’t understand why it’s not really talked about much, let alone has many supporters, but I beleive that creation and evolution can coexist quite happily. Our beginnings at the moment cannot be proven. Maybe one day it will be one way or another, but until that day this is my view. I think that everything did come together in a sort of Big Bang. I just beleive it wasn’t chance. I beleive that there was a hand guiding it. I beleive the creator was kind enough to give us the gift of evolution so that we wouldn’t be wiped out and every species would have a fair shake at survival. Some survived, others didn’t. I don’t really care where we came from, though I beleive the apes to be our cousins. Some people are so offended by the idea that we could’ve been apes. Well, I’m offended on behalf of the apes. We are the idiots who blow each other up and fight over stuff that has no answer and with current technology cannot have an answer. Wherever we came from, im just glad we are. The bible says that God created us in His image. There was no picture nor description. God could look like chewbacca. I really wouldn’t mind. Maybe Jesus will dress up like Han Solo and we will all have one giant comic book convention. Who knows and who are we to argue? I thoroughly enjoyed this post and I did not come seeking facts because there are NONE. Period. Nothing can be observed. Dr who has not taken us back so that we can see for ourselves what happened. It’s crazy to be one camp or the other when the two mingle so well. That said, beleive what you will. I brought up this topic at a bible study for college students last week and was just mapping some key points. I’m sure I’ll be the most unpopular and possibly hated belle at the ball but those are my beliefs. Thank you again for the great article and food for thought!

  152. Monica you say that God could’ve made man through evolution. There are many theological problems with that. The worse are…
    1. Jesus said that “at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,'” (Matthew 19:4). He was talking about Genesis 5:2 which says “He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.”
    So Jesus said that God created mankind at the beginning. If you can’t trust Jesus here, you can’t trust Jesus anywhere.

    2. 1 Corinthians 15:45–49 says..
    “Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.”
    Without the first Adam, there is no last Adam either, and our hope is in vain. According to this passage, without Adam, there is no heaven for us!

    3. Genesis 1:31 says about God’s last creation days.
    “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.”
    If everything was good at the end of His last creation day but God chose to use evolution as his means of creating human beings, then, what is “good” according to God, involves the death and suffering of billions of creatures because evolution needs just that, death and suffering.
    “the last enemy to be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15:26). An enemy is not good.
    Acts 3:21 says “Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.”
    If God restores everything as it was at the beginning, and there was death at the beginning. It would be completely crazy for heaven to include death and suffering.

    Instead of accepting what scientists say, accept what God says.
    I encourage you to go on websites such as creation.com and get educated.

    God bless you

  153. This article was a complete load of tripe.
    I was amused in the first paragraph, when the author stated, ” We are the modern descendants of ancient apes, just as modern apes are the descendants from that same ancestral tree but on a different branch to humans. Just as the VW Beetle is the ancestor of the Porsche Carrera GT, one does not cease to exist because of the emergence of the other…”
    Funny that he would use intelligently designed automobiles that are “homologous” to justify his point.

  154. The millions of followers of the thousands of previous gods would have thought any current religion a sham, rightfully so. It takes one to know one.

    All religions are shams. The fact that they were repeated long enough over time, by the fearful & uneducated for all to hear, doesn’t make it true.

    And yes, it IS possible that everything happened by sheer coincedence- the universe is quite large, you know.

    Religion poisons everything there is to celebrate on our little fly-speck of an orb. Our lives, our sentient lives, are such a total fluke we ought to be giddy at the notion we have a chance to not only live, but to appreciate & protect what we have.

    Instead, we’re dragged down to ancient, ignorant tribal-man’s misunderstanding of the universe & plunged into the tar-pit by those who fear, rather than accept & cherish their destiny.

    It’s a shame, and I hope our own evolution survives the socio/psychopaths who clamor for the earth’s-end based on this drivel called religion. If it weren’t for religion, we’d have addressed our environmental issues as detrimental to all– instead of using the trite: “oh, the earth is only a stepping stone”, etc. (ie: not worth saving).

    Really, really awful what crazy people have done to all we could have shared.

  155. That is a rather interesting statement that says little. Your opinions, and hate for religion. Interesting that those who believe in the big bang have to make so many adjustments from their predictions sometimes even admitting other predictions are wrong in order to adjust to fit the facts on one proven to be wrong. Just check out the changes they have to make to adjust to new facts they learned about Mercury since two thousand.

    Stephen Hawkin’s great hey since we know the big bang is false with the current information, I will put this forward to save the big bang guess and the genius is you cannot disprove this save since it says there is matter and energy we cannot detect that is saving the big bang guess. That is even more religious than a God.

    Now you seem to be ranting about some great evil in your discussion. “Religion poisons everything there is to celebrate on our little fly-speck of an orb.” Seems to be one such statement. How can you justify something is “poisonous” a “sham” or whatever, at the idea of religion. Well evolution is it’s own religion. I agree there is a lot of sham in religion. The Devil is very good at counterfeiting the truth.

  156. @Tracy.

    I’ll reply to your comment by paragraphs

    1. That’s a logical fallacy (Guilt by Association). Just because religions in the past were wrong, it doesn’t mean that those today are wrong too.
    Also, you say “all religions are a sham” and “it takes one to know one”. Then, how would you know that all religions are a sham? The only logical conclusion it that you’re admitting that atheism is a religion of which you’re a follower (“it takes one to know one”) and is thus a sham (“all religions are a sham”)?

    2. “All religions are shams.” followed by Ad Hominem

    3. Just because the universe is big, doesn’t make it more possible for life to be possible. 0x1=0, 0x1,000,000 is still = 0.

    4. What would you appreciate more, a $500 bill or a blank piece of paper? I don’t see how my life being meaningless, having appeared by chance and my death not being important whatsoever would make me appreciate it more. If I am especially created and have great value, I would value my life more.

    5. Again, prove it. Ad Hominem again

    6. And another Ad Hominem

    7. And of course, no concrete examples given.

  157. There are something’s that disproves evolution one thing is “sex” . Let’s say that evolution is true for a moment. That somehow which is not known, we have a living cell. And that this cell multiplies. Becomes a living body. And in accord to the theory it took millions of years. Now here comes the problem, how was live maintained for this body without reproduction organs that took thousand or even millions of years to develop. Since it is a fact that living cells have a short life and have to be replaced. Here is the other problem. How were two bodies one female and one male be evolving at the same time, and reach sexual matures at the same time and be able to reproduce to maintain the species. How could there be an evolution of a female and a male body which were evolving at the same time without a common control so they can later fit one another to reproduce life.
    And at the same time or maybe before, plant live was evolving to fit the job of producing food for these bodies that were evolving. And without no common control. There is no way that evolution can explain this.
    Now there is a simple explanation which is in the bible. It says that God created the vegetation first. And then he created man first and then a women. And that was in a very short time so they can come into a sexual relation and maintain life of the human species.
    And God was the common control, for plant, man, women, and animal life. There is a great Designer of this planet which is the common control of all we see.

  158. Religion is a delusion & has “man-made” written all over it. The fact that it continues to be passed down to next generations only shows the depth of some people’s need to escape death, prostrate/subordinate themselves, & to give up personal responsibility (a fear of culpability). On the other side of that are the people who understand the religious power they can have over these former folks & they wield that power with (holy) impunity. Even when faced with the facts of thousands of societies all having their own “gods”, as proof of how man has ALWAYS created gods, the current crop of “believers” still insist, “well, yes– of course THOSE gods weren’t real, but MY god is the “real” one! Lol…good grief.

  159. @Tracy
    1st part is your opinion only.
    2nd part is a logical fallacy, just because many people believe in different gods, it doesn’t mean that one of them isn’t real. A very close logical fallacy I could say is:
    many people have different views about what will happen after death, some believe you go to heaven, others you become a god, and yet others that you simply cease existing, the current crop “believer” still insist, “well, yes – of course THOSE aren’t true, but MY worldview is the “true” one!” Lol… good grief.

    How about we talk facts. There’s been a lot of good answers in this thread, but instead of commenting on those answers, you simply use logical fallacies and bring irrelevant subjects up.

  160. Sam, there is no “fact” re: delusions of gods…However, there is fact re:science.
    It’s your call- believe a fantasy/delusion which suits your purpose of never dying & handling that never-ending plight of “fairness” (bad guys ought to suffer). Ok- whatever. Humans of the religious ilk seem “hell-bent” on restitution. Must be a religious thing? But don’t expect my tax dollars to support your delusion.

    Move away from this fog of delusion, & you meet humans attempting to put their good evolution to work- to try to explain our world & universe.

    I find it hilarious that the “believers” cling to a totally crazy interpretation of life in favor of what we know to be fact now. A “virgin birth”? Talking snakes, burning bushes…really?

    Yes- all ok, pre-now. Now? No. Those who are seeking vengeance or fear a death that is truly the end will never let go. You’re one of those.

  161. Again, these are your opinions, why do you refuse to talk about facts, and why do you go off topic? This page is called “10 facts of Darwinian evolution”, you’ve already commented on this page (8 comments before this one) to which I replied, yet, here you are, going completely off topic and throwing logical fallacies again. How about you look for my answers to the 10 “facts” (16 comments before this one) and reply to those?

  162. Sam: there are no religious “facts”- only hand-me-downs from the bronze age…Science (this century) has some clues. It’s only the religious dinosaurs who cling to ancient & delusional beliefs in the face of science.

    For those who propose a “god”- it is your duty to produce evidence, not those who disbelieve to adhere.

  163. Well, what a surprise! You don’t want to talk about facts. You do realise that I’m offering to talk about the “facts” of evolution, right? You say it’s my duty to produce evidence, but part of that evidence is the lack of good science and conclusions that the theory of evolution has, and you shy away from talking about that!
    If you can’t back up your worldview with clear logic and science, don’t call it science. I’ve clearly and logically shown you why these 10 “facts” aren’t facts at all, and you time and time again you babble on about your opinions and insult anyone who doesn’t agree!
    You do realise that evolution has never been observed (unless you’ve been around for millions of years), so don’t expect me to believe that there are no gods, especially if your worldview breaks laws of science (the law of thermodynamics for example).

    Now, let’s see you refuse to talk about science…

  164. Just a comment on point 10. First I realize this is several years late. New evidence suggests that the 98% guestimate is extremely high, and not ‘proven beyond question.’

  165. THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE for anything in the freaking religious tomes! Nothing, zilch! Saying, “I saw a guy rise from the dead” & repeating it, ad-infinitum, because it suits you & catches on is NOT a FACT! Never mind it’s a story stolen from even older delusions! Good grief!

    Science can only work with the evidence it can see. Galapagos Islands bird evolved & were studied. THERE IS NO DISPUTING EVOLUTION! What you are disputing is the beginning of the universe! Who cares how it started!!!! The point is that it DIDN’T START WITH YOUR DELUSION!

  166. Pingback: 10 Facts of Darwinian Evolution Everyone Should Know – Mohadesa Najumi

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