Atheism is a religion by Joe Cienkowski: A Video Review. Part 5

EDIT: My best friend has reminded me, quite passionately I should add, that I am being more than a bit full of shit for threatening Joe with violence (as I to in this video). She is right, I am being hypocritical when I do this. I’ve kicked people off this blog comments for threatening violence in the past and now I’m doing the same thing. My bad. Joe, if you’re reading this, I’m sorry. You’re not worth losing my temper over anywhere near as much as you are worth my best criticism, which in this particular clip I probably don’t deliver. Looking forward to part 6.

53 comments on “Atheism is a religion by Joe Cienkowski: A Video Review. Part 5

  1. So Joe’s reasoning for atheism being a religion basically comes down to him being unable to conceive of an existence without belief, so we must believe in something? I am finding it more and more amusing every time i hear or read creationists dismiss science as false, whilst sitting in their insulated, heated or air conditioned homes, using generated electricity to power their semiconductor based computers, phones and cameras to publish their personal delusions on the internet. I guess its ok to accept “some” science and not others.

  2. Seismicshed: Joe’s basic problem isn’t with atheism, science or logical understanding per-se because he doesn’t know why non-theism is a perfectly acceptable philosophical position; how the scientific method works or how procedural scholasticism broadens understanding. His fundamental problem is that he doesn’t know how to differentiate between his personal beliefs and objective reality. He also lacks a conceptual mind. He is a literalist in the way some people who are not diagnosed with aspergers syndrome nevertheless show many of the traits; an obsession with proving themselves right, by relying on arguments that perfectly demonstrate exactly why they are wrong.

    The fact that his personal opinion depends upon certain Christian dogmas, that are contradictory and self-evidently false, doesn’t for one moment strike him as a reason to suspect that he has had his ability to reason for himself somewhat hijacked. In that respect he is indicative of the huge differences between young-earth creationists and the vast majority of Christians—even protestant evangelicals.

  3. “Book or blog entry” — his book is only as long as your average blog entry, so what’s the difference? And as grammatically tangled as your average blog entry, to boot.

  4. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you are going home in a big white coat you like! Love it (Come on England) Killed me mint sir! Joe give it up son pick up your coat and do the walk of shame. Anyone can write a book of fiction and try and get away with selling it but what makes it worse you’re trying to tell us it’s all TRUE!! Dry your eyes son and go home to your mamma and eat some humble pie. We all know that all you’re trying to do is make money on the back of a myth just like the lockness monster,Bigfoot,ufo’s You are a Sad,sad,sad little man. And even if it was all true and there was a God!! Do you think he would create a piece of shit like you letting you make money on the back of lies and making folks believe words that suit you. Move on son we have seen enough. Stop before it gets silly. P.S you will never get away with it not while our human lie detector Jim is around. O yeah i forgot i am starting my own church as i believe that my body is made up entirely of cornflour and you must live your life to my new cornflour rules and read my cornflour books and pay me cash to here my cornflour rants. And do not mock my belief and you must respect my belief. All donations can be sent to http://www.cornflourismysoulandmylife.com/daftcunt.

  5. hey jim, i have a question for you: where do rights come from if they don’t come from religion?

    don’t take this the wrong way, i am steadfast in my atheistic views. i just want to hear your opinion.

    ps. bonus points if you answer this in a video! :D

  6. Michael makes an interesting point mentioning the social contract, but I think there is a more fundamental case to be made from an evolutionary point of view, in terms of rights—as in knowing what is right from what is wrong; societal rights, innate morality and altruism.

    I don’t want to get into it here, because a) it is the section of my free book I am currently working on and I don’t want to rush it and b) I was going to mention it conversationally in the next video anyway.

    For now, Sym, you might want to look up a paleoanthropologist and conservationist named Richard Leakey.

  7. I think @joecienkowski’s 15 seconds of internet fame is up. I know its fun poking this unevolved monkey but I feel frustrated that Joe will never learn. I know that ridicule should be applied to those crackpots in our society who openly flaunt their ignorance, but I just don’t feel like this particular monkey deserves the undue attention he is receiving both from the #atheist twittersphere, youtube watchers, & blog readers. At some point we have to turn our backs on Joe and let him fade into obscurity. I guess I am just sick of him.

  8. OK. This is a tricky one, because we need to collectively decide what to do next. The easy way out is reporting him, because there’s enough of us with plenty of followers between us who are more than happy to help, to trigger the Twitter bot into banning / suspending his account no question. But I’m not sure that’s the right way to go about this. For a start, if we’re deemed to be playing the algorithm to produce a false positive it might result in some of our accounts being suspended too. Plus I’m not comfortable with what could be seen as censorship, even though I do totally understand those who are saying he’s not actually making a point and should be therefore treated just like regular spam.

    We’ve already tried to organise a ‘stop following Joe’ event that actually increased his follower count, because people wanted to find out what it was all about. So I’d say the best thing to do is learn from that and adopt a more professionally organised strategy to the whole thing and turn his idiocy into a positive campaign in support of rationalism. Play the fucker to our advantage. If he wants to comment on science, let’s take more of an organised approach to combating his nonsense. If he wants to talk scripture, let’s consult people who understand folklore and mythology.

    I’m not just talking about setting up Poe accounts or humorously altered re-tweets, I mean lets make the guy as famous for all the wrong reasons. He’s made himself the by-word for creationist idiocy on the #atheist hash tag, just by what he says. But we need to make him just as transparent to those following the #christian and other hash tags too. We’re only going to succeed in this if non-insane Christians join us as well. We need to force him into errors he can’t undo or wriggle out of.

    If you’re with me on this, as opposed to simply banning / reporting him en masse, than I have a few ideas:

    Rather than each of us writing unique replies to him every time he tweets something on the few key subjects he always does, we should cut and paste the exact same stock reply back at him, so he is inundated with the same advice, from every angle. For example, if we can all keep a text file to hand, where we can cut and paste the same replies back to him, no matter what he says, he would have no choice but to alter his tract and, hopefully, in doing so, reveal more of his darker side.

    We’ve already seen snippets of his opinion on the Palestinian cause, his barely guarded racist views on president Obama, his unblinking support for Mormon moron Glenn Beck, his penchant for peachy asses and is misogynistic view of women in general. We need to take him out of his comfort zone and force him to elicit more contentious responses like this, that clearly break the Twitter Acceptable Use Policy. Rather than giving him a free reign on subjects he isn’t capable or interested in debating on, let’s draw him in more on his knee-jerk views; his redneck credo.

    The ideal result of this would be he’d either have to give up on @JoeCienkowski and start a new account, losing his existing followers or he’d be forced into saying something which resulted in a ban for much more robust reasons than simply our frustration at having to read his messages tagged with #atheist (because they show up even if you’re not actively following him)

    I already keep a text file to hand for when he’s in “atheists are Hitler” mode. Each of the following fit into 140 characters or less:

    @JoeCienkowski “The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity” – Article 20 of the program for German Workers Party

    @JoeCienkowski “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

    @JoeCienkowski “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.” – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

    @JoeCienkowski “the Fascist idea is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or atheism” – Adolf Hitler Völkischer Beobachter

    @JoeCienkowski “We see Christianity as the most important factor for the maintenance of our society”- Adolf Hitler Reichstag, March 23, 1933

    @JoeCienkowski “I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity” – Adolf Hitler

    @JoeCienkowski “so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator”- Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf Chapter 8

    @JoeCienkowski “The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator”- Mein Kampf Chapter 11

    @JoeCienkowski “Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry”- Mein Kampf Vol 2 Chapter 1

    @JoeCienkowski “the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.”- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

    What I would propose we do for now, is maintain radio silence; resist the urge to reply to him at all, until we can formulate a coherent organised response. We will draw up, democratically, a similar list as that shown above, of stock responses which everyone interested in helping can send to him in one voice against idiocy; atheist and religious together.

    All in favour say, “aye”. All opposed say, “nay”.

  9. I like the idea of having a pre-made set of stock replies to his unvarying, unchanging assertions. Aye.

  10. I completely agree. Reporting him for spam would just make us look childish, especially for me as he has only ever replied to me a few times and never spammed me as such. I say ‘aye’ and hope it works.

  11. I like the idea of our only response to him being the same response en masse. I don’t follow Peachy Joe, but I do occasionally check via a search of his username to see what silliness he’s up to. The only other suggestion I would have is if we all responded to everything he says with: “That JoeCienkowski is a complete moron. Let’s all point and laugh at him as is our custom.” And absolutely nothing else. It sounds a bit juvenile, but then again, so does Joe.

  12. I say Nay to the general thrust of Point 12 for the following reasons:

    1/ It’s both Christian and democratic (I’m a Christian Democrat after all) to make sure that Joe gets at least one vote
    2/ I’m actually rather fond of Joe – it’s kinda like when you see an injured brainless animal bleeding on the side of the road and take pity on it
    3/ I’m for freedom of speech, even if Joe struggles to put one word after the next in a semi-coherent fashion
    4/ I like debate. If more Americans debated Darwin, we wouldn’t have the ridiculous situation when a significant minority of that great nation shares many of Joe’s views (and they do, believe me)

    Hope I haven’t urinated too liberally on everyone’s parade!

  13. While I understand that things are rather futile with KrazyJoe, it also irks me greatly not to call him out on his BS at every turn. I realize that is probably seen as “feeding the troll” on its face, but again he is a prime example of everything wrong with religion in general and fundamentalist Christianity in specific; some part of me wants to allow him to continue just so he can point out to everyone his own absurdity. If we don’t challenge him, the weaker-minded or like-minded people who think like him won’t have any reason to refute what he spews.

  14. @Annraoi ~ to your response:

    #1. nothing in democracy *requires* one candidate or idea to get one vote. nice gesture, though.
    #2. Joe isn’t brainless. i wouldn’t call him “intelligent” per se, but his are not the innefectual ramblings of an unwitting fool. he is willfully and intentionally ignorant and disrespectful.
    #3. on this, i agree.
    #4. Joe doesn’t debate, so this is a pointless assertion. in fact, this would be an entirely different scenario if Joe DID debate. ;-)

    given all that, though, i didn’t feel any rain.

    Jim, I’d further this endeavor to ProphetWriter and JuanitaBerguson, by the way. they’re all in the same category, and the inexperienced ilk of apiyor and his kind aren’t far behind.

  15. Great video again, Montana

    PS, fair fucks to you for apologising for threatening to beat him to death outside your local pub. You’re a bigger man than he.

  16. Annraoi O’Diothaigh: I had hoped to make exactly the points you’ve made myself, but with the understanding that this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or non-religion; this is about sending a message to someone who symbolically represents idiocy, to let him and his kind know that there are more people out there who strongly disagree with them than they realise—and that a significant proportion of these people consider themselves Christian.

  17. I’ll be putting these in a downloadable text file to share and use as soon as everyone has had a chance to vote / comment and add their own. Again these are all 140 characters or less:

    @JoeCienkowski Darwinian Evolution is a proven fact by three separate, mutually corroborative, falsifiable data sets: http://is.gd/d0QkR

    @JoeCienkowski If we had never discovered any fossils whatsoever, natural selection would still be a fact: http://is.gd/d0QtE

    @JoeCienkowski Darwin was wrong about many things. But evolution does not rise and fall on just one man: http://is.gd/d0QJr

    @JoeCienkowski Ernst Haeckel did not influence Darwin. http://is.gd/d0QR2

    @JoeCienkowski Darwinian economics; survival of the fittest market forces, are a strict ideology of right wing conservatism, not liberalism.

    @JoeCienkowski You do not understand how evolution works because you have not read any of the evidence I have shown you which explains it.

    @JoeCienkowski Not a single peer reviewed paper showing positive evidence in support of Intelligent Design has ever been published.

    @JoeCienkowski Tectonics, genetics and fossils are a fact. You need to falsify ALL THREE of them AT ONCE to prove evolution wrong.

    @JoeCienkowski The evidence of evolution is more abundant than the evidence of gravity: http://is.gd/d0RIO

  18. Dawnne Gee: Juanita and I have already gone toe-to-toe on various fronts. Search this blog. As for ProphetWriter, I just don’t put her in with the others. She clearly has serious mental health issues.

  19. Aye. Radio Silence. I hate to say it but you really started to get obsessed there with him and no wonder since he is a complete babbling fool.

    However I think more investigating reporting is needed on him. Like why was he in prison, (he said for selling pot) but his time served and his criminal action did not add up. I think one should investigate his background. Public Records that sort of thing.

    To me he appears to be a Con-man, jumping on the young earth-creationist bandwagon to line his pockets will gullible individuals money. His book reads as bad as the bible and no real argument is made. (loved the bracketed ‘See Science’)

    All we can really do as Consumers is warn other would-be Joe followers & book buyers of his intentions. If you really want some other people to sink your teeth into try looking at http://www.coasttocoastam.com/ The Radio Show that allows people like Joe to reach an large audience. They will run with ANYTHING.

  20. Aye. This is a much better approach than fake accounts and trying to ban him.

    I think it’s going to be pretty damn hard to lure Joe into a spot where he’ll make an error that he can’t wiggle out of, he’ll simply make up bullshit to get out of the error like he always does. We’re going to have to figure out a situation that we could put Joe in that he cannot escape from by simply making bullshit. That’s when we’ll win for sure, is when he can’t issue a response because even he realizes that he’s wrong.

  21. I do not want to see him banned purely because it is his right to believe and say what he wishes (within the bounds of law and AUPs), however distasteful and/or inaccurate it may be.

    By publicly debating in this manner he may be of more harm than good to his cause.

    Anyway…buy my book! ;)

  22. I’ll be putting these in a downloadable text file to share and use as soon as everyone has had a chance to vote / comment and add their own. Again these are all 140 characters or less:

    @JoeCienkowski Biblical scholars the world over contest the validity of the New Testament: http://is.gd/cWJOR

    @JoeCienkowski If you’re saying atheism is bad because it is a religion, why are you religious?

    @JoeCienkowski You are as atheistic of Allah, Zeus, Mithras, Ra, Artemis, Di Cang and Sol for the same reasons I am of Yahweh.

    @JoeCienkowski If Christianity is the one true religion why wasn’t it sanctioned by the God of the Old Testament?

    @JoeCienkowski “My Me, My Me. Why have I forsaken Myself again?” – Forgetful Jesus, Mark 15:34

  23. OK, guys I’ve put all of the stock responses to Joe into three text files. Please download them using the short link below and remember to ONLY use these stock replies to Joe from now on, whenever he touches upon a given subject.

    If you don’t agree with the wording of something, don’t use it and / or post a correction to this comment thread or reply to me via email. Also any additions should be posted in the comments thread first, so everyone else can add them to their text files.

    Also, don’t forget, I want short video snippets of you saying, to camera, “Joe, you’re wrong”. You can get them to me in whichever format you like. Quicktime is best but YouTube will work fine too. Love yaz!

    Updated list of stock replies:
    http://deurl.me/1UKDO

  24. You’ll get that video clip as soon as I get home. And I promise I won’t subject you to my banana hammock.

    Some choice replies from my skirmish today, edited for ease of retweeting:

    @JoeCienkowski In that clip #Dawkins was repeating Dembski’s claim that aliens could have been the intelligent designer. THAT IS ALL. Liar.

    @JoeCienkowski If radiometric decay worked like you believe, satellites, GPS, and nuclear power would not work. http://bit.ly/cIm5zV

    @JoeCienkowski Equivocator. You love what science can do for you, and only accept science where it accords with your personal beliefs.

    @JoeCienkowski What’s the difference between “true” science and “pseudoscience”? Is it how much they accord with your personal beliefs?

    @JoeCienkowski Multiple lines of evidence show the age of the Earth and universe. You must knock them all down simultaneously.

    @JoeCienkowski Atheism does not require evolution. We could be atheists even if spontaneous generation were true instead.

    @JoeCienkowski Atheism is not a positive belief. Babies unexposed to any dogma are atheist without a “belief” in it.

    @JoeCienkowski Science gives you evidence. The Bible gives you a story about how Jesus gave Thomas evidence.

    @JoeCienkowski Theism is a belief in a specific god. #Atheism is no belief in any god. Thats as far as it goes. Science is another ballgame

    @JoeCienkowski How do you study, observe, experiment and repeat “creation by a personal god 6000 years ago” exactly?

  25. Thanks a billion to everyone who has already started doing this. It’s already having an effect on him. Once he realises we’re using the same tactics on him that he uses on everyone else I think we’re going to get an a amazing pay off, but everyone has to stick to only using the replies from the list. I know they don’t always fit, but that’s sort of the point.

    Xxx

  26. @JoeCienkowski believes that babies are conceived at hospitals!

    @Tekphreak if you go to the hospital every day and find out how that baby was conceived. You will see it’s real science what the Bible says

  27. @JoeCienkowski What’s the difference between “true” science and “pseudoscience”? Is it how much they accord with your personal beliefs?

  28. A list of Logical Fallacy Alerts to answer Joe with:

    First is a perfect answer to his Atheists believe the universe came from nothing argument:

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Bifurcation Fallacy: http://bit.ly/92Clid

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Genetic Fallacy: http://bit.ly/9LjtPu

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Appeal to Tradition Fallacy: http://bit.ly/d7c9ej

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Appeal to Consequences Fallacy: http://bit.ly/b9XxbJ

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Appeal to Popularity Fallacy: http://bit.ly/aWOFib

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Red Herring: http://bit.ly/aQxQ1x

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Weak Analogy: http://bit.ly/c4lhHM

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Straw Man Fallacy: http://bit.ly/cPpu9O

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Affirming the Consequent: http://bit.ly/cHHore

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Arguing from Ignorance: http://bit.ly/ahU7Dl

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Circular Reasoning: http://bit.ly/czOsHk

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Cum Hoc Fallacy: http://bit.ly/bWziWO

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Hasty Generalization Fallacy: http://bit.ly/9uBnKQ

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: No True Scotsman Fallacy: http://bit.ly/bG2cK6

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Post Hoc Fallacy: http://bit.ly/a2iIgk

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Slippery Slope Fallacy: http://bit.ly/9h7ciQ

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Sweeping Generalization Fallacy: http://bit.ly/cfOp5M

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Subjectivist Fallacy: http://bit.ly/bEBzOH

    @JoeCienkowski LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT: Tu Quoque Fallacy: http://bit.ly/cD4z9l

  29. @JoeCienkowski no it was culled from jewish tribal myth-good intentions, but the road to heaven ain’t made of such…there is #nogod .

  30. Starting at June 29th replace XX with 10 and so on:

    XX days ago @JoeCienkowski said he would tweet links to published theologians who believe the bible is a science book. Still waiting.

  31. I think he’s dead. But when he was alive he did say that the bible was a science book.

    I won’t judge whether he was sane or not, he fit your requested parameters is all. :-)

  32. I have had enough of joker Joe. Today I ban / reported him using tweetdeck’s blocking tools. Please consider doing the same.

    He has had 40 days and 40 nights to present ONE link to positive evidence in support of Intelligent Design and he has failed to do so. He has repeatedly asserted lies about people and refused to read the evidence that proves him wrong.

    He has now turned his “attention” to physics by asserting light can travel faster than light. He doesn’t know that’s what he has said because he can’t read or think, but I’ve got too much shit going on in my personal life to deal with him any more and keep a calm head about it. It’s time to just pull his plug.

    The straw that broke the camel’s back was a tweet in which he said, and I quote, “[I saw a] tape by Ken Ham ‘Genesis solution. He said “evolution is religion. I repeat, evolution is religion” a light went OFF in my head” • http://twitter.com/JoeCienkowski/statuses/17797870090

    I will continue to do the occasional video blog, because I’ve discovered I quite enjoy doing them. But future clips won’t be focused exclusively on peach boy, although I will dip into his “book” now and then when the subject of perfect idiocy comes up.

    Thanks for all your support guys! I’ve met some great people, Christian and otherwise thanks to Joe, but it’s time to move on. He’s a barefaced liar; a self-deluded, brainwashed little prick who misses prison cock so much he’s trying to get sent back for tax evasion, so he can be even more like Kent Hovind than he already is. End of debate.

    Spamwatch:
    http://twitter.com/spam/status/914219940

    Blocking users on Twitter:
    http://help.twitter.com/entries/117063-blocking-users-on-twitter

    Twitter Spam And How To Fight It:
    http://techcrunch.com/2009/04/26/here-comes-twitter-spam-and-how-to-fight-it/

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