The British love the National Health Service

nhs_415x275When I lived in America, the woman who I shared a house with needed to go to the emergency room. Every time anyone saw her or spoke to her, a bar code on her arm was scanned and a random amount was added to the total bill, for which she had no idea if her insurance policy would cover her when she was eventually discharged.

She was in an open ward with other patients which was no cleaner or more technologically advanced than anything I’ve seen in the UK. The staff were no more polite or any more professional. The food was no more fresh or nutritious and the cleaning staff didn’t sideline in performing cabaret show tunes for the entertainment of their patients.

One night in bed, a 5 minute conversation with a general practitioner and a pack of de-stressing pills later, the total bill was over $400.

I dread to think what goes through the mind of someone in a car crash. I can’t imagine anything less likely to aid in ones recovery from a serious operation, than wondering how much of the bill you’re going to get stuck with–despite that you’ve already paid into a scheme which is ostensibly designed to help, but which all too often fails to deliver.

Compare and contrast this stressful and sinister system to what happens in the UK. From minor cuts and bruises requiring a stitch, to heart and lung transplants and chemotherapy, the NHS is “free at the point of use”–which means the tax payer contributes to a health care system everyone can use, regardless of their ability to pay.

The care and attention lavished on the great British public, by the NHS, is not without its problems. But the crux of a recent Republican Party campaign against President Obama’s plans to revolutionise the American health care system, hinge on a series of TV ads which attack the British system, saying in typically loaded terms that a more social approach to health care is one step towards socialism.

There are certain key-words which, when used in American politics, immediately have people of a certain persuasion running around like headless chickens. “Socialism” is one, “liberalism” is another. Knee-jerk, push the button, hear the voice conservatives have, needless to say, bitten the bait and reacted exactly as they were pre-programmed to, when it became obvious in the run up to the Presidential election McCain & Palin stood no chance of winning and the damage limitation machine swung unto action.

The problem with this particular tactic of offensive misinformation, is that they are trying to paint the NHS out to be a killer example of how not to do a health care system, when in reality it is one of the best in the world. Yes, there are headline grabbing examples of what happens when it goes wrong. Having family members who work on the front line in Accident & Emergency, I can tell you that it is by no means a perfect system.

But the very idea that it is a system anywhere near as inhuman and inefficient as one which judges someone’s right to treatment by how wealthy they are, or bases the outcome of an adjudication on whether or not a patient lives in a county whose governor is in the pocket of a pharmaceutical giant, isn’t one which I would have thought it right to be proud of. Unlike we British, who are genuinely proud of the doctors and nurses and professional staff in our NHS.

The Conservative party, in the UK, are not traditional allies of the NHS. But even they have learned from the mistakes of Margaret Thatcher, in the century which gave the world mass privatisation and Reaganomics, to leave the NHS alone, if you want to win votes. Even the fixes to the NHS they are likely to introduce, should they win the next general election, would never take us anywhere near to such an antiquated and open to corruption system as that which is so preciously and short-sightedly defended by their sister party in the US.

So, my beloved American readers, take it from your uncle Jim. Whatever TV ads and newspaper opinion pieces they are bandying around about my NHS in your country at the moment; no matter how many posh MEPs with bad teeth they roll out on the evening news headlies, prepared to slag-off the health care system which has been saving lives and providing the best doctor and surgeon training in the world, since 1948–I guarantee you, NONE of these people have ever had to see what it’s like in the emergency room of an American hospital, when they can’t afford exuberant health insurance.

You voted for change, now get some balls and do something about it!

60 comments on “The British love the National Health Service

  1. all I can add to the American view on healthcare is one word… Canada. We’re just to the north and have a similar system to the NHS yet remain out of examples for or against universal health care.

  2. Had a discussion on Facebook a few days ago. I stopped participating after reading the following. “Fact is that there isn’t a gov. run healthcare system in the world that works!” My first thought was, boy wouldn’t the people using those systems be surprised!

  3. Dr. Anne Doig who is the top doctor in Canada said, “We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize,” Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

    Jim, Americans are just smarter than the Brits. You would think after Hitler, Stalin and Chavez that the Brits would learn that BIG GOVERNMENT is the start of corruption and the abuse of power by the elite.

    America does not have groups like the IRA to contend with because government is limited and small and doesn’t get in the way of regular people.

    When you give away your freedom, you are trusting an illusion that all will go well.

    Just look at Canada and their system that is failing and they don’t even have to pay for a large military like the U.S. does.

  4. What on earth are you talking about man? Big government took over your life decades ago. You make it sound as if having a health care system that actually takes care of people means surrendering to some sort of totalitarian dictatorship. What the fuck kind of country do you think Britain is? Do you even know where it is on a map? I’ll give a clue, it’s no-where near North Korea. And more to the point, why would something a Canadian politician might have to say about their health care system have any bearing on the facts about the system of a country 4000 miles to the east of Greenland roughly 1 third the size of Texas?

    Do me a favour, will you. On your way to your local Natural History Museum to learn about the genetic lineage of Trilobites, drive only on those non-government roads with that pure and simple unsubsidised oil in your tank, will ya? Make sure to eat a nice healthy breakfast before you set off. A bacon and egg sandwich should do it. Make sure to avoid that FDA approved stuff though. Wouldn’t want big government telling you which kinds of growth hormones and antibiotics and sugars and E number additives to eat would you? Don’t drink any of that fluoride added big government water either, that’s the road to ruin and evil socialism that there contaminant-free H2O.

    You talk about illusions as if you know anything about escaping the one you’re already living in. I’ll give you one thing, mate, you’re either the single most deluded person I’ve ever communicated with or the undisputed genius of satirical trolling.

  5. “Jim, Americans are just smarter than the Brits. You would think after Hitler, Stalin and Chavez that the Brits would learn that BIG GOVERNMENT is the start of corruption and the abuse of power by the elite.”

    That is one of the funniest, most poignant examples of Freudian projection I have seen in a long time.

    Do yourself a favour Denny, look into Jekkyll Island and the federal reserve act of 1913. The same elite that control our country (the UK) has controlled America for nearly a hundred years.

    “I’ll give you one thing, mate, you’re either the single most deluded person I’ve ever communicated with or the undisputed genius of satirical trolling.”

    Excellent burn!

  6. LOL, true, Zeitgiest does have some useful info in the middle section. If you look into his sources for the first third however (principally D.M. Murdock/Acharya S) the stuff about Christianity and Jesus not having existed is a little unfounded (there is a lot of evidence that the man did in fact exist), and I’m not sure that a resource based economy in practise would be anything other than the most tyrannical form of Stalinist socialism. You really do have to have faith in the ‘blank state’ view of human nature to take Fresco seriously, although his idea that most human problems are technical in nature and his designs/innovations to solve them are clearly fantastic. I would like to consider myself a relatively rational person so I also find Peter Joseph’s obvious enthusiasm for Acharya’s new age nonsense in general to be quite distasteful!

    Personally I think the most essential film for anyone looking to ‘lift the veil’, especially American, is the documentary ‘The Money Masters’:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

    It really is a comprehensive and paradigm shifting experience. Plus any film on the erosion of human liberty that has it’s page completely erased from Wikipedia is on to something ( here ), not to mention that it is clearly the inspiration between most films of this nature that follow.

  7. I concede that Zeitgeist isn’t the best documentary ever researched–but as you say there are some good points in it–especially on the way religion is used to bludgeon people like Zdenny into unquestioning servitude. The addendum film they made on the federal reserve is very well done, however and builds on the best part of the original production, with regard to there being nothing ‘federal’ about the federal reserve at all.

    No, the reason mention Zeitgeist is that it’s one of those opening argument packages the uninitiated might see and begin to ask questions for themselves–which was the whole point, I think, of including some of the more spurious aspects you mention.

  8. The NHS, slightly different from the system we have in Belgium. I don’t know which is better but I’d take any of the two over the American way. While we do have to pay for the full services of the doctors, nurses and hospital at first, we get over 90% of the costs reimbursed after but a few weeks (usually two). Which isn’t a problem since the hospitals here give you several months to pay the bill. At least we don’t have to wory about payment or insurance when we get run over by a car, or about our wealth when we need a transplant.

    Whatever Americans may say, they’re fools to let their government go on without social health care. But apparently they lack the guts to make the government make a change. Maybe that’s why killing, torturing and raping innocent people in Iraq makes them feel high and mighty. But that’s a whole other thing I won’t get into.

    “I’ll give you one thing, mate, you’re either the single most deluded person I’ve ever communicated with or the undisputed genius of satirical trolling. ”

    I’m so glad you said this, as my english vocabulary isn’t nearly good enough to respond to ZDenny with the same amount of wit and… ‘charm’ as you did.

  9. Efrem: They have the same system in Norway. I lived there for a while and it works just as well as the NHS here.

    On my reply to Zdenny, sometimes people just need telling like it is :)

  10. In America, the government is too big and that is why we need to cut, cut and cut!! Instead of making it bigger, we need to make it smaller.

    Big Government becomes a pathway for psychotics who lust for power to start abusing the people. We simply never learn from history and the Brits are making a big mistake by giving away their freedoms to others to decide for them. If history has taught us anything, it’s that people in power become addicted to power.

    If I was to throw Ayn Rand in the mix, you have the makings of another Hitler, Stalin or Chavez formulation since self-interest is the overriding principle that ought to guide society.

    Government that is tolerant only works in a Christian country and that is why Christians have been able to mobilize the world towards greater freedom. Christians were the first to write in free speech and freedom of religion. However, even those freedoms are being taken away from us in America.

    Christians know that this will change in time as secular control will eventually result in the death of millions of Christians which is also a pattern in history. History will repeat itself and the emptiness of secularism will eventually prove to be an empty promise that really had nothing to support it in the first place. A Christian that follows the advice of the secularist are writing their own obituary.

    Lastly, Canada was also stating that their system worked; however, they are admitting that the public doesn’t know the extent of its failure. The government kept it a secret. How many secrets are being kept in Britain at this time? You will never know because the government will do everything it can to keep its power.

    Power is a terrible things in the hands of people who do not participate in the nature of God. A person has to know the love of God in their life in order to actually operate consistently on an altruistic level as a public servant.

  11. “A person has to know the love of God in their life in order to actually operate consistently on an altruistic level as a public servant.” Just like President George W. Bush…oh wait.

  12. Zdenny, you don’t shrink the reach of overzealous bureaucrats by denying lifesaving treatment to people who can’t afford to pay for it. You’re advocating the imposition of that which you claim to fear the most, because you haven’t thought through your argument from a reasoned position.

    No-one ever tried to say the NHS is perfect. But it is post-Thatcherite dalliances with part-privatisation which has caused the greatest disruption to the way in which it was originally designed to work. Once upon a time, if you had a tooth-ache, you went to the dentist, screamed a bit, waited for the injection to wear off and went about your day. Now, if you can even find a dentist still accepting NHS patients, you’re still looking at the thick end of £30 just for a filling.

    Because of this, most people have no choice but to register with an entirely private practise, because competition in the marketplace, for materials, drugs and liability coverage, are so high that small to medium town centre dental practises have no choice but to pass the cost on to the customer, because they’re prevented from claiming it back from the government. This leaves those on a low income with no dental coverage whatsoever and those who are just-to-say able to meet the cost of private treatment permanently worried about needing treatment at the same time their mortgage, car and utility payments are due.

    When the choice is between keeping the lights on and feeding the kids, or having a niggling tooth looked at, families who are already struggling to keep their heads above water will always sacrifice their own health and well-being before that of their children. What you are proposing is that we not only extend this unfair and frankly immoral system out across the entire healthcare system, simply to avoid being accused of operating by your grossly confused definition of socialism, but that any attempts to address the evils of the existing American system should be compared to the worst aspects in the British system which only came about because of the introduction of the very same free market system you so vehemently champion.

    “A Christian that follows the advice of the secularist are [sic] writing their own obituary.”

    Pretty please with a cherry on top, promise me you’ll remind yourself of that next time there is a severe weather warning.

  13. Jim said, “You don’t shrink the reach of overzealous bureaucrats by denying lifesaving treatment to people who can’t afford to pay for it.”

    You don’t understand the American system if you think people are being denied care. The current system defaults to government safeguards for the poor in terms of medicare or social security for the disabled.

    The liberals are not wanting to be a support to the American system; rather, the liberal plan actually is attempting to take over the system so that they can set the rules.

    No one is advocating not assisting the poor. What I am opposing is the government control, rationing and power grid structure that will be established by a government takeover of 20% of our economy.

    With this type of power, they will make people dependent on a system that will not stand the test of time while reducing the quality of care at the same time. They will be able to start population control programs and eventually even determine the number of kids you have. (This takes place in China).

    An article just ran today which says the Brit system is failing. Doctors are going on vacation after meeting quotas, long lines exist and emergency vehicles are not able to respond to all the request.

    Currently, American’s don’t have long lines, no quotas on care and you get an emergency vehicle right away if you need it. We don’t want the Brit system.

    In the U.S., every government program that they have started bloats as people develop an attitude of selfish and a “give me” attitude rather than recognizing the need to act altruistic on behalf of your fellowman. Government control leads to corruption on a macro scale because everyone wants to get something rather than give something to their fellow man.

    American’s don’t believe in a person getting a free lunch. If you need something, you should ask your neighbor(s) so that each person can visibly see the sacrifice made on your behalf. It is hard to take advantage of people when you are looking them right in the face.

  14. Again, you’re highlighting the worst aspects of the NHS which only arose when a more American style free market was introduced. This isn’t about the rich handing over their cash so the poor can eat cake, this is about making sure that everyone enjoys the same level of care regardless of their financial status, precisely because we all want to live in a society where health is paramount.

    There is, I agree, a great deal to be said for limiting the powers of government. You would be hard pushed to find someone as opposed to central databases and CCTV, for example, than me. But when you start down the road of accusing your own democratically elected President of heading towards a Chinese style one child only program, simply because he wants to reduce the power that unaccountable giant corporations already have over you, you simply sound delusional.

    The fact of the matter is, Pepsi Co., Microsoft and General Electric have a far more pervasive influence over ordinary dick heads like me and you than “big government” ever could, regardless of their left or right leaning traditions. The difference is, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it without the political will from the bottom up and Obama offers a real chance at changing an area of American society which, I have to be honest, the whole of the rest of the world looks at in dismay.

    You’ve expended so much energy over the fact that there’s a guy Glenn Beck reminded you isn’t white in the Whitehouse you’ve lost sight of the fact he’s trying to do something which actually needs doing. Obama wouldn’t be there without corporate America. We know why he is who he is and how he got there. Brand Obama is a truly new phenomena and in many ways something which needs watching closely. But you don’t encourage support from overseas in that effort or sympathy for your concerns among your fellow countrymen, by attacking a proposition which would disconnect the tight grip private equity holds over public health by missing the point completely and blankly asserting that Obama is heading the US towards Germany in the 1930s, simply because the man wants to actually deliver what he promised he would when you elected him.

    The time for quibbling amongst yourselves about the merits of electing a more liberal and, dare I say it, intelligent President were over and done with the moment you plumed for John McCain and Sarah Palin as the Republican nominees and fooled yourself into thinking they stood any chance of actually winning. So stop your internal dialogue and listen to someone else for once. Social healthcare works. Come to my country and I’ll show you how it works every single day for millions of people who are genuinely proud of their NHS.

  15. When there is a British guy flying aid into the US to help people without insurance have basic dentistry and health checks, instead of the third world countries he normally deals with, you seriously have a problem with your system. Too much selfish regard for one’s self and not enough for your fellow human beings. It costs peanuts compared to the amounts spent on pointless fucking wars in far off places and it would save more lives than those wars are supposed to be saving.

    I predicted to my manager that if Obama got in, the racist shit would hit the fan. The people that voted agains Obama simply can’t accept they lost – especially to a black guy! Bad losers.

  16. I think there is a lot of truth in that, James. There is no sign, however, of Obama ending this pointless war anymore than there is any sign of him doing what he said he would do in closing Guantanamo bay. So there is a fair amount of criticism to be aimed at him–I just happen to think that they are picking the wrong fight if they think they can win popular support around a proposition which would make healthcare affordable for everyone. They might do well with attacking him on this among the educationally sub-normal, book allergy brigade, but I have a great deal of faith in the vast majority of ordinary Americans to silence such imbecility with good old fashioned facts, reason and informed debate.

    The problem with the people we’re seeing on TV, lining up at town meetings to shout racist epiphytes at people who’ve actually studied the woeful shortcomings of the US healthcare system for more than the five minutes it takes to read Fox News bullet points, is that they get so worked up into a froth about their own ignorance that when they realise their confusion is unfounded, instead of backing down and admitting their mistake, they redirect their self-loathing at the people who proved them wrong. That’s the only way they know how to do politics; them and us confrontation.

    In reality, healthcare reform is a relatively straightforward task, but the private insurance giants and pharmaceutical companies whose shareholders depend upon enslaving the working and middle classes to a corrupt system which needs removing know that all they have to do to raise the spectre of communism, is redefine the meaning of words like ‘socialism’ and ‘liberalism’ until they act as key-word triggers in the minds of people like Zdenny here. Once the populous is pre-programmed to react exactly as they intended, all they have to do is churn out planted stories on the channel 6 news and sit back and watch the sleeping masses completely miss the whole point of fighting for democracy in the first place.

  17. I might want to add:
    asthma medicin in the US: 30 dollars
    same medicin in Cuba: 0.02 dollars

    To me, that’s a good enough reason to call americans idiots. The same kind of indoctrination they use to hypnotise their children into believing in the big man in the sky, is the way they make them believe their entire system is based around their oh so precious ‘freedom’. A freedom they obviously don’t have at all. Benjamin Franklin has long since turned around in his grave.

  18. I’m sort of with you there, Efrem. It’s worth noting, however, that the reason drugs are cheeper in certain countries is because they are generic clones, as opposed to genuine Pfizer or GlaxoSmithKline products. Many of these are illegally reverse-engineered.

    In certain African countries, makers of generic antiretrovirals, for example, often escape prosecution, because it is the only way the governments can afford to control AIDS. The big pharmaceutical companies refuse to cut the cost of their legitimate brands in third world and developing nations, because the American consumer would quite rightly demand the same percentage cut. And so the poorest of the poor keep on dropping dead and the Republicans have the nerve to wobble on about altruistic capitalism and what Jesus would do. Fucking pricks.

  19. Yeah, it’s funny how many Christians ignore Jesus words about governmental taxes.

    Mark 12:17

    17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
    And they were amazed at him.

    Combine that with Matthew 25:45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ and today’s anti-health-care reform Christians are in some deep shit.

  20. Oh, no don’t you get the memo, Mike Aka MonolithTMA? Those guys are “saved”, remember? They sent that check to the nice man on TV, you know? That science museum guy with the jingle and the ads with the free luxury gold pendant if you pledge $50 or more? Yeah, so… That’s them pretty much covered from any obligation to actually do anything about their sin or anything. Which must be nice, I guess. I can kinda see the appeal of, you know, just signing a cheque and never having pay a single bit of interest in reality ever again. Sweet deal really.

  21. As I said in a recent discussion, I find it incredibly sad and disturbing that it’s perfectly fine to spend tax dollars to kill “the least of these” on foreign soil, but it’s a crime to use tax dollars to help “the least of these” on our our own soil.

  22. Well it’s not like hypocrisy and religion haven’t gone hand in hand for centuries, but it does seem to be something we’re less and less “allowed” to actually point out in public discourse these days–at least not without getting the whole accusation of “religious hatred” thing thrown in our face with the staggering hubris only prescribed humility can muster.

  23. I’ve always been much more impressed with people who just live their faith rather than wear it on their sleeve and then shove their sleeve in my face. We used to sing a song many years ago They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love. I wish that were always true.

  24. The goal of a national health care program is abortion. The future of the world in the minds of a liberal is about managing the world populations. Obama and China do have a lot in common.

    Everyone in the U.S. gets the same level of care. You are just not famaliar with our system over here in the U.S.

    The Brits system will eventually go on life support just like the Canadians are experiencing. The reason for the ‘change’ to your system is because it was not working. Now the ‘change’ is not working by your own admission.

    Canada just announced budget cuts to their national health care plan and told their public that they will do 6,000 fewer surgeries next year. Ouch!

  25. “Combine that with Matthew 25:45 ″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ and today’s anti-health-care reform Christians are in some deep —- ”

    Here is the comment made by Mica. Jesus never relied on the government to do anything for him or his followers. Just the opposite, it was big government that put him to death on the cross.

    I am always amazed how liberals think that Jesus would be for big government when in fact he was killed by big government. In fact, the Roman Empire which dominated much of the world at the encouragement of some religious leaders are the ones who killed him.

    Jesus taught just the opposite of what you are proposing, he taught that you are to give to everyone that has need personally. Jesus never expected the government to love people because BIG GOVERNMENT CANNOT LOVE.

    Christianity is about love and not about power and this is what drives Big Government supporters crazy about evangelicals. We believe that a person can love because the love of God is within him… Government cannot experience the love of God and should be limited because it kills again.

    Hope that helps!

  26. Zdenny, clearly there is no point in arguing this with you. According to Jesus you should pay your taxes and shut up. He didn’t say give to Caesar and then tell Caesar what to do with the money.

  27. Of course you are to pay your taxes…If Obama passed the health care reform, I would have to pay taxes to pay for his program. I am not sure what your point is…

    The transforming effect of the gospel is that God is uniting the World around His love. All Christians are united by the love of God that indwells each of us. As our numbers grow, the love found in a society will grow. This is the means by which God is growing his kingdom.

    The only people that are always trying to stop the growth of Christianity is BIG Government whether it is in the Roman Empire, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia or in North Korea. Christians know what happens when BIG Government becomes corrupt and bent on power, we end up dying in mass numbers. Even while dying, we are to love our enemies following the example of Christ who said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do” while dying on the cross. Christians participate in the love of God that will perserve us for eternity and will cause us to love our neighbor regardless of the consequences.

    For the Christian, we strongly support, based on history, a limited government and individual responsibility which means that love has a much stronger chance of succeeding and those who are selfish and desire power have a much harder time being suppressing it.

    Yes, Big Government nailed Christ to the cross; however, it was the followers of Christ whose love eventually won the hearts of the same empire that had crucified Christ.

  28. I hesitate to do this, because Mike already made the point, but the full passage is:

    Matthew 25:41-46 (New International Version)

    41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44″They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46″Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25:41-46

  29. “Christianity is about love and not about power and this is what drives Big Government supporters crazy about evangelicals. ”

    You actually have a point here about Christianity driving ‘big government’ crazy, but not for the reason you think. Since they have been so spectacularly successful in suppressing or subverting the labour unions, university lecture halls, and just about every protest movement that has arisen in America over the last century, the Churches are really all that is left as a staging ground for any kind of meaningful grass roots organisation by the bewildered masses.

    You actually have some good points amongst your proselytizing, but you are much to locked in to this ‘liberal’ ‘republican’ paradigm. The same as how over here we get ‘Labour’ versus ‘Conservatives’. Its all a parlour trick and the sooner you start thinking in terms of ‘us’ and ‘them’ rather than ‘red’ versus ‘blue’ the faster things will start to make sense.

  30. ” Once the populous is pre-programmed to react exactly as they intended, all they have to do is churn out planted stories on the channel 6 news and sit back and watch the sleeping masses completely miss the whole point of fighting for democracy in the first place”

    Excellent point Jim. We saw a grand example a couple of months back. Historically big mass protests all over America staged as ‘tea party’s’ (i.e the Boston _) against taxation without representation. Truly a major step forward for normal people….and how is it reported in the US media? As a bunch of ‘republican’ incited racists who hate Obama getting together for some ‘teabagging’.

    It boggles the mind.

  31. I’m not really into all this intellectual discussion, I’m more of a get right to the point kind of guy so excuse my harsh language if I say: What the fuck does Jesus Motherfucking christ have to do with health care? Even in America, there is a seperation of church and state, written right there in the first amendment of the United States constitution. So I don’t care what your god might have to say about the NHS or any such system, nor do I want to read your interpretation of a piece of text that was written when no such system even existed yet. So, why do we keep getting pulled right into that subject?

    Now, I just deleted the most offensive remark I probably ever typed. I’m letting myself get too angry with this idiot. Better ignore him altogether before he gives me a heart attack.

  32. The Christians who comment on here are harmless enough, Efrem. You just have to realise that most of them have never really thought to challenge there own thinking before, so they assume everyone else is the same. I always find it best to remind myself of this before clicking send.

  33. Thanks for the clarification and the full listing of the scripture, Jim. I was taking a rest, typing the same things over and over can be a tad tiring. I need to do a FAQ post with my standard responses to the endless ideas that Christians present.

  34. I have come to realize that the reason that some people like the health care system in Britian is because the liberal press is biased in its reporting. Like Canada, the Brits are not able to see the big picture because of the press and its selective reporting. In fact, Canadians themselves don’t know their system is currently imploding and in trouble because the press refuses to report the facts.

    Here is the Headline today that ran:

    UK: The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets.

    This type of stuff never happens in the U.S.

    Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209034/The-babies-born-hospital-corridors-Bed-shortage-forces-4-000-mothers-birth-lifts-offices-hospital-toilets.html

  35. In response to your article, you can check out my blog as I have posted a response since it is a valid concern.

    In addition, Obama has already been proven to be a lying. Factcheck.org is advising that Obama is also lying. Factcheck.org is certainly not a conservative organization.

    Congress already has the power to regulate insurance companies so Obama’s whole argument is smoke and mirrors meant to confuse the weak minded who are not use to thinking.

  36. If you had any idea how much of an epic fail it is to use a story from the Daily Mail as justification of your narrow minded, neo-conservative, holier than thou opinion, you would bury your head in shame and embarrassment and never speak again on matters you know, literally, nothing about.

  37. “..in fact, if I was any sort of a friend, I would delete those last two comments for you and let you try again. ”
    That has to sting…

    also: “UK: The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets.”

    Even IF this were true, it wouldn’t prove that the NHS isn’t working, it’d only prove that bed manufacturers in the UK aren’t working fast enough.
    I had never heard of the DailyMail before, but after reading that headline I’ll be sure to read more of it, as I enjoy satirical humor. Wait, it is a parody site of a real newspaper right?

  38. It’s the newspaper which appeals to the little Englander brigade. The “send ’em all back where they came from” crowd. The paper that gave the world Richard ‘people who aren’t like me are scum’ Littlejohn and Melanie ‘I’ve even managed to convinced myself I’m a real journalist’ Phillips.

  39. I read your articles on how the NHS saved peoples lives. You prove my point though because it was not the NHS that saved anybody.

    In America, medical is never refused to anyone that goes into an emergency room.

    I guess the Brits allow people to die if they don’t have the NHS. The fact is that once the NHS is no longer able to fund itself, you will have a nation of people that will be unable to fend for themselves.

    American’s are just smarter because we know that leaving decisions in the hands of the people rather than giving our freedom to the government to manage is part of what makes us a strong nation.

    Just remember, as soon as you want someone to take care of you, you have just given your freedom to someone else to manage which means they will start making decisions for you.

    Obama said that just the other day. He said that “spirit” is too subjective of a test as to whether medical services should be rendered for the elderly…

    Ouch Obama! Way to lower the knife!!

  40. OK, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again and again until you listen. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Read that last sentence again so it sinks in, because I don’t mean it in a small way.

    As I stated in the first paragraph of the original article, I have seen first hand the way health care works in your country and I know from talking to Americans unlike yourself who actually have stamps in their passport that the extortion and corruption in private health-care which currently exists in your so-called “smarter” system is the greatest source of embarrassment to both Republicans and Democrats alike.

    Your assertion that “American’s [sic] are just smarter because we know that leaving decisions in the hands of the people rather than giving our freedom to the government” is by far the single most deluded thing you have yet to say as if it were your own opinion, which I do not think it is, because you have yet to show you are capable of forming one.

    Consider this as a formal invitation to come to my country and stay with me for one week. I will take you to one of the best hospitals in world. It is at the end of my street. It is at the end of every street in the UK. Yes, there are exceptions to this ordinarily high standard of care, which the cunts in the Daily Fail like to dig up and blow out of all proportion, but these are the extremely rare mistakes and not the experience we British have of the NHS, at all, on any level.

  41. The new york times? Are you trying to give him a cerebral hemorrhage? (had to look the spelling up. :D)

    Also, I’ve been thinking about it for a while and I think I know what’s the problem with America:
    In Europe, the people control the government. Just think about it, we’ll shut down the entire industry if they don’t do what we want. Which is what farmers did in Belgium not too long ago during the European Summit. And look what it got them, better prices for their products. Power to the people!

    In America, the people don’t know that they can control the government, and are scared into thinking that they can not.

    So when Americans discuss the issue of health care they think that our governments have as much power over the people as they think their government has on them. They just can’t seem to grasp the concept of people being in charge of their government. Americans may just as well be living in China, where protests are illegal. So shouldn’t we focus first on convincing them that our governments have absolutely no control over us and our free will? Because maybe when they understand this, they’ll be able to grasp the benefits of health care.

  42. And where do you live Michael? North Korea?

    Because if you don’t believe that you can control the government then you might just as well be living there. Or any other country that doesn’t allow people to speak their minds.

  43. Effrem, I live in the UK. In this country people are allowed to speak their minds, but only to a degree without being marginalised or institutionalised. Sometimes you may in fact affect some change. But if you believe that we are in control of any major issue, such as our eroding soveriegnty as a people and right to legitimate representation then you are wrong. People in this country have protested the EU superstate since it was merely the EEC and it hasn’t made a blind bit of difference. Lets not forget the debacle at the G20 protests either. In this country you can literally be kicked to death by the police for walking through a protest on your way home. But your right, at least we get to speak our minds about it. For now.

  44. Jim disagreed with me wanting me to read my last sentence again. Here is further proof that NHS is killing people.

    I know it is hard to believe that BBC is extremely biased and they protect the government rather than protecting the people. As I stated, when you give your freedom to someone else, someone ends up making decisions for you which can result in your death. In fact, it is better from the government standpoint to end a person’s life early on so that they cost less in the longrun. If you add in that people do not have inherent worth being that they are only an accident of nature, then you really have no reason to be careful and make sure that someone is cared for.

    I learned my lesson the hard way when I had surgery done by the VA while I was in the army. In addition, I have also worked in nursing homes that were run by the government. I do not recommend the doctors in the VA and I certainly don’t recommend government run nursing homes as a result. My experience is that these people do not care about you at all… Government cannot love which is the problem… Government sees you as problem to be dealt with. In fact, you are only a problem from the government standpoint.

    Check this out… It turns out that the NHS is killing people and it is all covered up. Family members have to just stand by and watch. It is so sad!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

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