There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people

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139 comments on “There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people

  1. Erm: READ… “in blood _and spirit_”.. READ.

    To the warrior in this picture, may you be shielded and guided in service to the Truth of this country, world and may your kind be soon the only acceptable sort for _any_ armed forces.. especially the US of A. Thank You so very much!

  2. Most Americans are not of German descent… well, maybe if you consider the English and Irish of German descent an everyone with a drop of German blood to be of “German descent”. Maybe.

    Further, Erm, you are a douche.

  3. A REAL American. A REAL soldier. May the Great Spirit sheild you from harm, that you may teach many others about truth.

  4. Erm,

    a) “blood and spirit” – meaning ideologically if not genetically (negates your whole point regardless of other issues)
    b) refers to the idea (fact? myth?) that Americans are descended from a self-selected group of rebels of various sorts who chose to come here in order to better themselves (this ignores Native Americans, but they are a pretty small percentage)
    c) mostly of German descent? I don’t think so. If we try to use Dan’s logic to justify this, then we might as well say we’re all of African descent

  5. Technically, yes many Americans have some German blood, but ideologically all Americans are descended from revolutionists. In SPIRT… To quote Dan: Erm, you’re a douche.

  6. I heard that this guy is a recruiter showing off a trophy of what some protestors left behind… not a dissenter.

  7. im the french word for back, im so insulted.

    all empires needed their myths and i suppose this is more palatable to american sensibilities than suckling on a wolf’s teat or some unifying gene.

    i don’t know why you get so upset anyway, I have german friends and they are very nice people.

  8. I am confused, is he talking about the killing of innocent Americans by others, of the killing of innocent others by Americans. It seems to me that he is being critical of the US, by holding the flag upside down.

  9. To the noble warrior and true patriot in the picture. #1. You are not alone. #2. Teach those who support you how to fight. Teach them all you learned in battle. Create armed revolutionaries.

  10. Approximately 45 million Americans claim German descent, by far the largest ethnic progeny of Americans.
    While the romantic notion of descending from revolutionaries and rebels is certainly appealing, it is far from explaining the whole picture.

  11. Why on Earth Germany and Germans had to come into this I’ve no idea. Surely the point is clear?

    It’s unlikely that he made the flag himself since it has a lot of crud wiped on it and no American, let alone a serviceman, would let Old Glory touch the ground. This is obviously something taken from someone or somewhere that he and his friends were in danger. Does that make the slogan untrue, certainly not. But I do think the slogan suggest this is how the soldier feels too, as if he agrees with the slogan, which doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.

  12. not really a political point, but i think it is interesting that the message was inscribed upside-down so in order to read it right-side up you have to “fly the flag upside-down” — the sign of distress. although i agree with the statement, the original reason for flying the flag upside down is to request external aid (reinforcements, etc). no amount of external aid would solve the problems that this message represents, because they are internal. internal to all of our society, and internal to each of us. we have to change ourselves and each-other.

  13. Thanks, Jin, for pigeonholing an extremely diverse group of 300 million plus people as evil, assuming that we all share the same convictions. Try realizing that saying “Americans are evil” is essentially the same as saying the “French are pretentious Assholes” or that the “Chinese are totalitarian barbarians”.

  14. Just pointing out that the United States is older than Germany, as a nation, so we’re not descendants of “Germans” in any sense of the word, really… plus that’s just splitting hairs, and Erm is a fucking dork

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  16. Really – grow up. If you don’t want to fight war – DON’T JOIN THE MILITARY. DUH! If you can read, take a look at history – that is the way the world works. We fight wars for money, freedom, oil, gold, land, whatever we feel like fighting about.

  17. Mostly German? STFU you idiot. More like Irish,Check and German…central Europe. Just like South Americans, the poorest of the poor came to this country. There’s nothing shameful about that but this bullshit about mainly German.

  18. i wonder why so many americans claim german ancestry or have german names then, it’s puzzling.

    weren’t hamburgers originally german?

    and i believe the usa hesitated in joining the first world war (and to some extent the second world war) due to this.

    i always thought Bush was anglisised from Büsch.

  19. I love all these people telling him he shouldn’t have joined the military if he didn’t want to kill the people. I guess when you actually do the killing, or have a brain, you make a distinction between killing innocent people, and killing enemy combatants. I guess these people didn’t get so upset about WTC attack, since who cares if they were innocent people?

  20. Holy fcuk. These are the stupidest comments on the internet. You should all be hunted down and thinned from the herd, you worthless sacks of shyt.

  21. @ Erm
    and those are the words of a gentleman? You are obsessed and nothing you have said have anything to do with the health and well being of our American people. You are a true mind fucked skin head. If you haven’t already shaved your head, go ahead. I’m embarrassed to share the same country with such ignorance.

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  23. I think all of americans should vote for Obama that is nobody can put a shit in McCane’s mouth and MAKE A NEW CLEAR COUNTRY WITH NO BITHES

  24. @ Cak (37):

    I hate to tell you this, but as an Englishman it’s always seemed pretty obvious to me that a lot of Americans don’t see people from outside the US as real “people” at all. Look at the nonsense comments about GWB recently: “[sic] He’s kept our country safe from terrorist attacks for seven years” – Hardcore Republicans actually believe that that’s true! Amazing! Never once do they think about the 100,000+ people (INCLUDING American servicemen) who have died to make it happen – and let’s be honest, the only reason it’s happened is because Bush has given them plenty of targets closer to home to bomb and shoot at, so that they don’t need to go to the US to kill Americans. They also fail to consider that Muslim extremists never attacked the UK or Spain before we entered into a pact to help the US in Iraq; again, the lives of Europeans, because we’re not American, somehow don’t count.

    I guess the upshot of all of this is that I’d like to shake that soldier’s hand for being wise, moral and brave enough to speak the truth.

  25. A soldier is meant to protect the citizens of a country from oppression, invasion or terror.

    That is what the soldier in the above picture is doing, at a risk to personal life or limb and the derision of fellow country men who think that the murder of innocents are OK because they are not white or American.

  26. Well well, the European history is complex and maybe Germany’s the most. As far as the average Americans interest in European history it usually starts with WWII. So “Germany” is hence a name of a country that always will be used, even when talking of where they descended from. Not too many knows about the history of all the Germanic tribes and kingdoms under the different rules of Napoleon, Rome or Sweden. Only after 1817 were they united under the name Germany, but still as individual kingdoms, like the largest of them named Kingdom of Prussia. This would be the first Reich. The second Reich 1919 – 1933 was a political mess seeing the communists fighting for power against a right wing led by the Nazis. The third Reich from 1933 is pretty well known history.
    There you go.

  27. Ichabod, You wrote, “….derision of fellow country men who think that the murder of innocents are OK because they are not white or American.”

    Believe it or not, in America we don’t have people skipping around saying, “hey let’s go kill a bunch of innocents because they are not like us. Yippee.”

    Your comment is based on sheer ignorance and propoganda.

    Sometimes innocents are killed in just wars. But the rooting out of evil also has to be done. It’s the evil tyrant’s who deserve the blame for innocents being killed in a war – not those trying to rid the world of evil.

  28. Custador,

    You really think Americans don’t think non-americans are people? Look at it this way; would be be spending billions of dollars to liberate people in Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants if we didn’t think people were people no matter where they lived. Would we be helping protect South Korea from invasion by North Korean communism if we didn’t think all people were important? Would we keep you butt from being taken over by Hitler in WWII,if we didn’t think our brothers in the UK and Europe were important?

    Quit reading the propoganda. Use your brain to think instead of using it as a sponge for the crap you read.

  29. “Would we keep you butt from being taken over by Hitler in WWII,if we didn’t think our brothers in the UK and Europe were important?”

    Oh for F£$*S sake – 20 MILLION deaths during WWII, of which 125,000 were American and 8 MILLION were Russian. America did NOT win WWII. You helped, but the VAST bulk of the fighting and dying was done by RUSSIANS. Also, the US didn’t declare war on Germany – Germany declared war on the US. It’s YOU who needs to read, not me.

  30. Absolutely amazing and I could not agree more. American sock puppets are killing innocent civilians by the THOUSANDS in Iraq. Apache pilots are mowing down innocent mean, women AND children and basically kill anythign that moves! Dictator Bush needs to answer for his crimes against humanity!

    Privacy Center

  31. It’s a bad war and a bad situation that we have no business being involved in. We (Americans) were sold a bill of goods (weapons of mass destruction), and went into this mess without a clear-cut objective or a goal. The criminal here is George Bush and in my world, he would be treated much the same as the Italians treated Mussolini when he was removed from office.

  32. Owen says: liberate people in Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants

    Are you being serious?! liberating Afgans from tyrants?! So when the Afgans were fighting the USSR they were heroes and the West happily (and publicly) funded them and provided weapons and training. The Afgan Mujahideen were the ‘good guys’ in Rocky 3!! Once a group (who historically have very few links with Afghanistan, but have found it a convenient mountainous country to hide in) attacks a Western country all of a sudden we are ‘liberating them from tyrants’? I have no issue with what we (the West generally) are doing in Afghanistan, but please, PLEASE let’s not kid ourselves about the reasons why.

    The day any Western country expends massive amounts of money and the lives of it’s own people for the purely philanthropic purpose of ‘liberating from tyrants’ I’ll eat my hat. By way of a reference Robert Mugabe is one of the most brazenly tyrannical leaders of the past 100 years, and the world has watched him effectively destroy a country which was once the envy of most of Southern Africa and totally butcher the democratic process. Why have we not ‘liberated’ the Zimbabwean people from ‘tyrany’…. because we have nothing to gain, there is no oil, and no-one we want to take revenge against.

  33. Excellent stuff

    politics is the biggest killer of all.
    all over the world people elect politicians in their countries to work for their country but they dont instead they feel that its their duty to clean the world from fundamentalist. however people in their own country are deprived of basic needs. for example US has spent trillions of dollar in war against Iraq and Afghanistan, if they had not this money could have given while America access to free health care, jobs, energy independence and many more.

    Us attacked Iraq without any prof that it has any connection to AlQuida. (what ever the prof us showed to congress has proved to be totally untrue). so this means the high officials in US congress made a mad decision wasted hard earned money of US citizens and killed thousand of innocent Iraqi people.

    when ever its in US interest it goes to UN and blame countries that that they dont obey UN laws but then it attacked a sovereign country where was those laws and resolutions.

    after 9/11 when us attacked Afghanistan it killed innocent people regardless. there been no inquiry into those deaths. one of reason that us attacked on Afghanistan was that they wanted to catch OBL, and at the time Taliban asked US officials that if they will provide the evidence then they can hand him over but US did not do it because they did not have any, infect US do not want OBL in relation to 9/11 instead some other charges.

    now i can comment on the statement that “No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people”

    in all of this blood battle American govt has killed more then 75 thousand Innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan. so clearly there isnt any flag to cover the shame of this killing.

    As American army has killed 75000 people

    so my question to the readers


    and i am sure they will not even kill a single dog because life of a dog is precious then 75000 humans.

    good luck America on this killing stream.

    i think all the American politicians who decided to go in these unjust wars should be prosecuted and us army should be pulled back in a way it does not destroy any thing further.

    with regards to 9/11 attack on US soil i can understand that how this was tragic moment in the life of 5000 families and i feel sorry for them. but they will also agree that

    5000 is not equal to 75000

    Salman Sadiq

  34. I have the greatest respect for America and the vast majority of American people, but you should be very careful about advising people to “Use your brain to think instead of using it as a sponge for the crap you read.”. Most of my American friends living both inside and outside the US, freely admit (and lament) that the majority (not all) of mainstream US is very partisan and gives little or no coverage of the other side of a story (and they is always another side). You may not agree with the other side, but you cannot regard yourself as informed on any subject until you have heard their point of view and discounted it for yourself. The US media seem to take the viewpoint that they will listen to both sides, decide on the right one and then throw their considerable muscle behind disseminating that message without the counter point. I think this does a great disservice to the vast majority of Americans who are perfectly well equipped to listen to both sides and form their own opinions.

    Most of my American friends us external news sources (such as the BBC, which is by no means perfect either, but does have a mandate to maintain an element of balance and proportion) to get a broader perspective of issues.

  35. There is no flag large enough to Cover the shame of killing innocent people, Mr. Ayers. And Senator Obama, his shame is leaking on you. Distance yourself from him, like you distanced yourself from “Rev.” Jeremiah Wright when his hateful vitriol finally turned on you.

    You keep a vicious dog on a short leash, and eventually it will nip at your hand… or worse.

  36. Please don’t dishonor the flag that so many men and women have defended.

    Sooo… they’re all playing Capture the Flag in the Middle East? Oh, that’s not so bad then!

    In all seriousness, thanks to Ozob (#21) for the insight of the upside-down flag. Cheers!

  37. All the liberals out there think it’s okay to kill innocent people and they have been since 1973. Just as long as those innocent people are still in the womb, right? (Then they’re not people, they’re just a group of cells).
    You hypocrites!
    Stop killing in the womb because it’s the same bloody thing.

  38. Interview Request

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    Ghazala Khan
    The Pakistani Spectator

  39. Pingback: No hay bandera lo suficientemente grande para cubrir la verguenza de matar personas inocentes

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  41. Global says,

    “Most of my American friends us external news sources (such as the BBC, which is by no means perfect either, but does have a mandate to maintain an element of balance and proportion) to get a broader perspective of issues.”

    Yeah sure, the BBC is one of the most left wing organizations out there. Great spot to get non biased info! Have you seen their latest special on global warming. Get real, all the news organizations have become mechanisms to impart more control on your lives. The liberals are jumping for joy as they watch America turn ever more socialist.

    Many of the posters here are quite ignorant of the world and we will all pay the price for your lack of knowledge.

  42. This particular picture has created a very important yet divisive topic. I love it. As an American, I want to see this discourse on a global level. My past votes on election day have always been for the only other option. The Iraq war was the most important issue for me in 2004. Instead, America was more preoccupied with preventing same-sex marriages and abortion. This election, hopefully is different. Eight years of idiocracy has left the entire world (including America) disillusioned with the role America plays as a military enforcer/bully. Nobody else has a military capable of standing up to rogue nations. We do. Our democratic process has allowed our country to become stronger and healthier much faster than the rest of the world. There must be something said for quick progress. Please allow our democratic process to correct our last eight years. This election has every promise to redirect almost every counterproductive policy of the last twenty years. Agriculture, energy, education, the U.N. and the monetary system are just a few aspects that need dramatic revising. I may sound hopelessly optimistic, however it is hope (and dissent) that will improve bad policy. Seven billion people on the planet mean that there are many many variables to achieve happiness. The American media, although crazy, does represent the opinions of people. If the rest of the world had a platform of free speech, like we do, then maybe your countries might elect government officials that have people’s interest in mind, not the corporate agenda. America is learning from our mistakes. There is no excuse for 75,000 civilian casualties. We are guilty as charged. There is no excuse for everything Bush has done. As an American, I solemnly apologize to the rest of the world for his behavior and horrible decisions. Pretend we are a nation with a split personality and our more reasonable partner of the world is going to make an appearance on 1.20.09. Peace

  43. flashmonty:

    i don’t know why people immediately associate german lineage with white supremacy or fascism.

    as for the health of the people, i’d argue that this display of irrational fear and aggression at someone stating mere facts is cause for alarm.

    like this joe the plumber fellow who asked mr obama a question, he has a germanic name and yet people don’t attack him for it. he asked a fair and honest question of mr obama and he responded with a reasoned and thoughtful answer.

    according to wikipedia the top 3 towns claiming german ancestry are all in ohio, weren’t they in the news recently?

  44. Americans may claim they have some German descent, like myself. I consider myself a product of American ideals more than a product of my grandfather’s homeland. Why don’t you ask an American who else they are descended from? Most Americans are mutts. I don’t know why ERM is getting under every one’s skin with a divisive lineage debate. Stupid quibble to be hung on semantics. The point of the post has nothing to do with some of our ancestors being from Germany. Nothing.

  45. It is true what is written on the flag that is displayed here. However, as well as the shame is the blood of these thousands and thousands of innocent people have been killed by greedy, wrong and inhumane men that the entire world knows where and who they are.

  46. true patriots question their government when they feel there is a point to be made

    thank you for doing your duty, soldier. if i could meet you, i’d shake your hand, sir.

  47. Hey I’m all for dissent but violating the flag like this bothers me…

    P.S. Before the attacks begin I’m a libertarian, but being a libertarian doesn’t mean I don’t get upset at the desecration of the flag.

  48. Custador, You Said…

    “Oh for F£$*S sake – 20 MILLION deaths during WWII, of which 125,000 were American and 8 MILLION were Russian. America did NOT win WWII. You helped, but the VAST bulk of the fighting and dying was done by RUSSIANS. Also, the US didn’t declare war on Germany – Germany declared war on the US. It’s YOU who needs to read, not me.”

    Read up on the death count genius. Yes, there were millions of Russians killed. Our involvement helped end it! There were in excess of 400,000 Americans killed – a far cry from your number. (why am I wasting this conversation on an idiot).

    Anyone who would say, “…it’s always seemed pretty obvious to me that a lot of Americans don’t see people from outside the US as real “people” at all…” doesn’t deserve anymore of my time. GFY.

  49. Global – “…informed on any subject until you have heard their point of view…”

    I’m well read enough to know Custador’s comment is completely full of $@#%.

    I agree with you though. The American media is 90% liberal. A study by USC and the Univ of MO in 2005 proved it. Google it and see.

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  51. word. Congratulations on your success Jim. This contentious topic needs to be discussed. Ultimately, there is nothing more important than global politics. G$

  52. This is the embodiment of the American spirit and no, I’d say the majority of people in this country are definitely NOT German.

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  54. @ Shawnbarr: I’m asuming that you’re using Wiki as your source. Well, it’s wrong. If you like, we can take the number from The World at War, the seminal 1973 documentary on the subject – they went slightly higher than me at 150,000. That’s still 53 times less than Russia lost. Also, let’s exam the “America Came To Save Their Friends!” myth, shall we? Germany declared war on you, not the other way around. The US had found every possible reason it could not to get involved, and only did so when it had no choice whatsoever. Don’t debate me on history if you don’t know it yourself, hey?

  55. @ Owen: You say I’m full of it, but (unlike me) you haven’t backed up your opinion at all. So who’s full of it, me or you? I don’t think it’s me.

  56. @ Jeff Id: I agree that the BBC are no longer the trusted outlet they used to be, but for slightly different reasons to you. I’m quite left wing, so the liberal slant (which I admit is there) doesn’t bother me so much, but ever since the Dr Ian Kelly afair and the Director General’s forced resignation, they’ve become a total government mouthpiece for UK Gov. Andrew Marr (BBC politics correspondent) in particular is a bad joke; I watched him trying to grill Chomski the other day – it was like watching a gnat trying to attack a lion. If you want a decent, non-partisan news source, try ITN or Reuters. I prefer ITN myself, because they’re so scrupulously impartial – what the BBC should be but isn’t.

  57. @ Jim Gardner: Sorry dude, I seem to have taken over your blog slightly there! I didn’t mean to do that.

  58. So true! Just today (for example) an average of 4,000 innocent and defenseless children were slaughtered in their mother’s womb . . . legally! Their only crime? Being an inconvenience. No flag can cover that.

  59. I never censor or remove comments from my blog – but I would like it made clear to anyone reading this that I am pro-life and pro-choice. There is no such thing as someone who is pro-abortion. It is a horrible thing no man can ever fully understand. But to bring such a difficult subject down to politics, to play football with, is perhaps the sickest joke among many sick jokes the religious have ever played on secular society.

    There is no excuse for their blinkered and wilful ignorance of the difference between a blastocyst and a mature foetus – much less the bronze age superstitions they impose upon 21st century medicine. Yes, one abortion is one too many, if that baby could have been carried to full birth and adopted, but it is an idealised fiction, which the Sarah Palin brain donors of this world buy into, that every girl who is raped is capable of emotionally and physically baring the scares of their experience into another unwanted life.

    If Jesus wanted every conception to become a baby, why doesn’t he introduce women to a nice young men training to be doctors, instead of that guy from the burger joint who seemed nice till he got drunk? Why, to put it another way, do millions of aborted births take place without artificial intervention every day? Why don’t the so-called pro-life campaigners spend as much effort on forcing medical science to prevent cot death and illnesses which prevent women from carrying without miscarriage?

    Could it be as simple an answer, that it is because the religious hate groups who use abortion as a bat to bray the heads of the dumb electorate into submission over other equally contentious issues, is the most effective weapon of emotional blackmail the church thus far found, of intervening in politics without having to declare themselves a political movement and therefore no longer tax exempt? A cursory glance at the evidence would suggest this is so – and we know how much the church just loves rational evidence.

  60. “They go to France, Spain, Canada, New Zealand and, increasingly, eastern Europe. Britons, particularly the middle classes, are leaving in greater numbers than ever before.” David Nicholson-Lord reports.

    If Obama wins, the Brits won’t be the only ones leaving their homeland. Leftist policies favor the poor and those that think they have not due to those that have. All the British Government’s, and the EU, policies have the goal is to take wealth from the hardworking producers of their society and give it to the non-producers. You European leftists call that social justice, making everything and everyone equal. That’s not justice or equal, until that is the producers stop producing. With no production there is no wealth, no wealth there is nothing to be redistributed but for equal misery for all. “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” (W. Churchhill).

    If you think the USA is exporting misery, which it is not, just wait if Obama gets in.

  61. On a side note, if it has not already been mentioned, and because right now election politics inevitably pervade any kind of discourse, let’s put to bed the idea that the troops universally support the Republican agenda. I’m one of those who disagrees with the “support the troops” movement (for one, because I’m forced to support them through my taxes, so push off), because there is nothing to say that all of the troops support the people who like to use their duty as a political artifice.

    The NY Times just published a small piece detailing that in terms of campaign funding from military staff, surprisingly (or perhaps not so much), McCain is beating Obama by only a narrow margin. Further, his marginal edge is because of the military-industrial bureaucrats at the department of defense, whereas a majority of funding from the uniform, boot-strap, working class military goes to Obama. So before it arises again, let’s put to bed the myth that the military inevitably aligns with GOP policies. Hopefully Colin Powell will endorse Obama this weekend as further evidence of the case.

  62. How grossly pathetic that anyone would refer to this poser in the photo as a “real warrior”. This Poser pretends to care about the “innocent” while members of his same political persuasions fail to decry the murder of true innocents by the millions every year in their own country. How can anyone who claims to give a damn about innocent people vote for a man who believes it is acceptable to finish off a baby that failed to die in the abortion process? You’re a vile JOKE and a disgrace and so is anyone who votes for Obama.

  63. Custador,

    Forget about your WW2 casualty statistics – it’s your original post that is revolting for two reasons:

    1) You say Americans believe the lives of non-Americans are worthless.

    Your quote, “I hate to tell you this, but as an Englishman it’s always seemed pretty obvious to me that a lot of Americans don’t see people from outside the US as real “people” at all.”

    This American for one doesn’t believe that. How many is a “lot”. Yeah, all Americans sit around at Starbucks discussing how worthless human life is in the rest of the world. Sure – what a disgusting generalization.

    2) You redirect the blame for terrorist acts carried out my Muslim extremists to America.

    Your quote, “They also fail to consider that Muslim extremists never attacked the UK or Spain before we entered into a pact to help the US in Iraq;”

    So according to you the March 2004 train bombings are the fault of America (?) At least according to your statement you seem to think so…

    Sorry, those bombings are NOT OUR FAULT. IT’S THE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS FAULT.

  64. @ Goostaf: rather than solemnly apologize for your own country which you so clearly disdain, why don’t you break out your passport and join your socialist buds in Europe. I’m sick of people who claim to be American while apologizing to the world as if you were somehow superior to real Americans.


  65. @Bruce: Someone needs to apologize for our president. It’s too bad that Obama is winning on a platform of apology to governments all over the world. Check out approval ratings of McSame worldwide. No country wants another Republican presidency. NOBODY.

    I don’t need to don an air of superiority in order to be compassionate to innocent civilians with families. Compassion is supposed to be the dogma of the conservatives, yet where is it? Compassion is supposedly the reason you attack abortion. Is human life a blastocyst (as our eloquent author indicates) or a late term fetus? Obviously you would rather defend the honor of a few cells over an Iraqi citizen with a life. How can you be so ignorant to not acknowledge that we all live on this planet together and that life would be better if we all got along. Striving for ideals is only human, not exclusively socialist. The air of superiority in your tone of being a “real warrior” obviously indicates you enjoy the belligerence of mankind, the manliness of war and resource stealing as the noblest cause. I will bash my president BECAUSE I am in America and I never voted that fucker in.

    I think it is amazing that people don’t realize that bush and Cheney are the most hated individuals that have ever lived. BushCheney has approval ratings at 20% in THEIR OWN COUNTRY, and worldwide polls indicate that McSame enjoys similar approval ratings. I wonder what it feels like to be disliked more than anyone in history. Republicans of every persuasion are distancing themselves from the BushCheney atrocity. Hell, the MAVERICK Jon McCain is the Republicans’ best canidate. Ha Ha Ha. Jon McCain has been accepted as a conservative by default. No other conservative stands a chance against Obama and the Bush/Cheney record of the past eight years. Bruce, friends apologize to each other if they have made a mistake. Maybe you don’t know what it’s like to have friends that you care enough about to apologize to them, I don’t know.


  66. I know the difference between honest dissent and disloyal subversion. The gentleman in the photo belongs in the second category.

    Some people are willfully ignorant about the distinction between a liberal democracy and a despotism. The difference between Saddam Hussein or Muqtada al Sadr, versus Gordon Brown or Barack Obama, is not difficult to grasp.

  67. Note– it is my hope that the international left, who at least on paper value human rights, democracy, and self-determination, start siding with moderates and secular progressives around the world in the face of fundamentalist and tyrannical injustice, including in Iraq and Afghanistan.

  68. You really think Americans don’t think non-americans are people? Look at it this way; would be be spending billions of dollars to liberate people in Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants if we didn’t think people were people no matter where they lived. Would we be helping protect South Korea from invasion by North Korean communism if we didn’t think all people were important? Would we keep you butt from being taken over by Hitler in WWII,if we didn’t think our brothers in the UK and Europe were important?

    Well, as an American who has spent more than half of my life in other countries, I’d say that we DO most definitely come across as the arrogant big brother. Most of what we do has undertones of self soothing to it. We do like to think we’re in charge and some day it’s going to bite us in the ass pretty hard.

  69. @ Owen:

    1) Look up the word “generalising”. I said “a lot”, not “most of” or “all of”. So no, I wasn’t generalising. I’ve justified the original comment with plenty of observational evidence already. You’ve yet to post a counterpoint. The litterary equivalents of “Nuh-uh!”, “Because I say so!” and “You’re a big, stupid, doo-doo head!” do not count as valid arguments. You may not like what I said, and you may not want it to be true, and that’s fine – but if you want to convince anybody (including yourself) that it isn’t true, you have to back that possition up.

    2) Excuse me? I did no such thing! The responsibility for the attacks on 7/7 (and others) was not the subject of any part of my comment. As it happens, I blame them on Tony Blair for going along with your half-wit president when he asked him to join him for a war in Iraq just because he wanted one – and I can back that upvery well, so don’t bother arguing it. But I digress. My point was, that by certain of the right-wing in the US making comments like “Bush has kept us safe from terrorism for seven years”, they are manifestly disregarding the death and suffering that has gone on outside of the US on the back of GWB’s illegal millitary misadventure in Iraq, thereby implying (consciously or unconsciously) that a non-American life is inferior to, or worth less than, that of a US citizen.

    Has it never occured to you to ask yourself why a bunch of nutters in some airplanes flew them into US buildings? If it was a religious thing, why wouldn’t they attack the home of the Catholic Church, Italy? Or the Jewish home-land, Israel? If it was ideological, why not Britain? Or France? Why is it that they hate the US above all others? Do you think that Muslim theocracies accross the Arab world all simultaneously decided to just hate the US for the sheer badness of it, all at the same time? Do yourself a favour, look up the history of the Middle East, with particular reference to US interference in the region, and really read it. Until you’ve done that, you’re arguing from a point of ignorance, and I’m just going to shoot you down in flames every time.

    If you’re going to reply, for goodness’ sake don’t just post rants and insults, give your opinion something to back it up!

  70. you’re right it is the word for shower.

    dos is back. i should’ve paid more attention in french class. why does that make me a pedant, i just don’t find it particularly insulting.

    by the way has anyone else noted the gentlemen in the picture is holding the flag upside down?

  71. @ Jim Gardner: What’s with all the abortion comments on here? Talk about way off topic! If you like, you can direct them all to my blog post on the Human Embryology Bill debate here in the UK (which you will note is carefully considered and contains a whole wealth of references to back up my opinion that these hardcore “pro-lifers” are a bunch of ignorant savages). I could do with a giggle, and I don’t have any issue at all deleting their comments after I’ve had a good laugh at them :D You can read it here: if you want to.

    *grabs popcorn and waits for the loony-tune religious-right rants to pour in*

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  73. Its too easy. Those people who have died as a result of American bombs and bullets, how many were enemies? I bet not many. But most Americans are just normal people who are just trying to make ends meet. A living. America is not at war, nor is Afghanistan or Iran.. Its the regime or people in office. Governments make war not so much the people.

  74. I agree with the quote, no country has the right to kill the innocents of an other or their own.

    While that my view on the quote. But then again perception of life comes form one’s point of view and one’s point of view comes form their experiences, and then how one perceptive those experiences come form there personality. And then personality comes down to experiences, morals, society, and a lot of other thing that I don’t have the education to tell you about nor understated at the moment.

  75. sorry first time doing this.

    So by someones point of view a person could be innocents of actions or justified in them or they could see them a guilty of actions and may have been, in other or that give action, justified; they have there own opinion.

    Now, we don’t live in a perfect world, if we did there would not be such things as war. But I am not saying, that the government shouldn’t find a way to decrease, because there will always be some, citizen calculates.

    I detest war, but then again it is human nature as in all nature to protect ones home.

  76. The shining city on the hill answers to no dictatorship or enslaver of peoples. George W. Bush is, and has always been, a great liberator of all peoples. He is the 21st century Simon Bolivar. He is the born again savior for who will defeat the anti-Christ Ban-ki Moon and Obama. Heil to the GOP!

  77. What’s a Human Right for ? If someone can kill so many people out there in the name of ‘pre emptive attack’ ? Raid others countries with ‘teach democracy’ and ‘build a peace’ as reasons, huh ? Is democracy have to genocide or arrested others whose have others opinions ?

  78. No one like war but everyone like to have freedom to do whatever they want. Well, we are living in a world that contain some mindless people today. It takes war to be free. Every country has been to some kind of war over and over again. The reason for this to occur over and over again is because we got some mindless and selfish people who are voting for other mindless and selfish people to be in charge of the country. As long as human being think selfishly we will never get rid of wars. Wars will be fight again and again and many more people will die. This is inevitable. Our human’s mind will not reach a higher level of thinking because we are constantly getting bombard with some much stuff. As technology are entering into our already busy mind we will lose our mind to it. Technology doesn’t care about our family, friends, neighbors, or even lives. Our mind is still young and we are unable to handle the massive power of technology and the overload of emotions that are building within each one of us. As we all know the secret to living a good and loving life but most of us are not doing it. If you are not doing it, you are to busying getting angry of other actions or technology is taking up your mind’s time. The secret has been used in your life over and over again and that is why you are where you are today. The secret contains two simple directions. It’s like up are down. This post is coming from an angry person who is very angry about the war. It’s ok to be angry but when you expressed in this way it can be very damages to others or even yourself. In the USA, where people have too much freedom and that is why so many of these people will go crazy at time because they have no guidelines or rules to follow. Everything in universal has guidelines and rules for it to work according to it purpose. That is why so many Americans are looking to life coach for guideline and rules. This will be a big business around the world in the future because technologies are enter into many other country. In a way life coach is already a big business. Type in life coach in google search engine then you will see the results. War and war we will have again and again.
    People will die in the middle. These wars will take place in third world country first. America will not be defeat by other country but it will be defeat slowly by the enemy within. It’s like human being. We will blame ourselves first before we realize that it’s not our fault but that of another person. So to fix the messes in the world, we as individual must learn to see the big picture and to work on the small details at the same time. To complete fixing the messes you must continue see the big picture and work on the small details. It’s like having a loving family. You must learn to see family first and work on the small stuffs. Getting angry, argument, fighting, getting upset and many others negative emotions are small stuffs. These stuffs are the enemy within you and if you continue to let them overshadow your love for your family. You might not have a family sooner or later.

  79. “Why is it that they hate the US above all others?”

    Al Qaida already told us why.

    “America is the head of heresy in our modern world, and it leads an infidel democratic regime that is based upon separation of religion and state and on ruling the people by the people via legislating laws that contradict the way of Allah and permit what Allah has prohibited.”

    In other words, small countries like the UK and Israel are little Satans. We Americans get the honor of being the Great Satan. Lucky us. Changing leadership isn’t going to make Islamic Supremacists like us; when Clinton was in office, they bombed the Khobar Towers, our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and the USS Cole.

    That’s doesn’t mean Islamic Supremacists aren’t fighting others– over the past few years, they’ve been killing Russian schoolchildren, beheading Buddhists in Thailand, bombing Indian train commuters, plus violence in Algeria, Nigeria, the Philippines, Turkey, Israel, Spain, the UK, their little intifada in France — jeez, does the media in the rest of the world keep people in the dark?

  80. Maybe we should kill those killers in return!
    Then those families of the killers can come after us!
    Then another batch would kill those killers for us!

    Then… why not we kill every single chap on Earth?

    Problem solved.

  81. Somehow I have the impression that half the Americans do not like themselves. Its rare occasion that I peek at American politics. Politics of the First world is mostly irrelevant in the third world and vice versa. Actual conditions greatly vary. If you think U.S. of A. is bad, you should see the third world. People there kill or get killed just to be where the Americans were, some two or three decades ago or perhaps a century ago!

    Why the third world is a third world is because countries in there are being ruled by corrupt, selfish, plutocrats or tyrants. And you are right Uncle Sam played Ugly American in there by helping or propping up those kinds of regimes. Casualties run already in millions.

    Never mind the communist revolutionaries; they want Uncle Sam dead. Who is happy with what he is doing to them, anyway. And these corrupt, selfish, plutocrats and tyrants are killing Uncle Sam as well. Slave wages in the third world is dragging you down! And they become so rich to buy USA itself while their peoples are sucked dry! That’s what Uncle Sam got for helping them!

    Maybe American people can help the third world and themselves by telling their government to keep off internal affairs of other nations or do it right. Allow people to settle their issues by themselves. And, Uncle Sam is to deal with the victor whoever comes out on his feet, on pure economics, later.

    And Uncle Sam needs not force or beat up others to pulp so they copy his system. Maybe all he needs is to show the world that his system works (and works the best in the world there is). This will bring us back to square one – people killing each other just to be where you, Americans, are!

    And without Uncle Sam next time, these regimes have to learn to be sensible to their peoples’ needs or else. Right now they don’t because there is always Uncle Sam behind, right or wrong. Is not Uncle Sam ashamed of these people who have no resemblance to him calling him “uncle”?

  82. it’s sad that people really kill each other and that seems so logical or welldeserved… there shouldn’t be anti-WAR manifestations, there should be pro-PEACE manifestations…

  83. @ jhbowden:

    “America is the head of heresy in our modern world, and it leads an infidel democratic regime that is based upon separation of religion and state and on ruling the people by the people via legislating laws that contradict the way of Allah and permit what Allah has prohibited.”

    Woohoo, a well thought-out and thought-provoking reply with actual evidence to back it! Thank you very much :)

    Okey dokey then, let’s accept that we know know the reason the Jihadists have stated for their actions, as written above. How did such an extremist group rise to a possition of such power and popular support on such a mandate? It seems to me that people in general must have been pretty pissed at the USA already to support a group like that. Plus, and let’s be honest here, the seperation of religion and state in the USA is a bit of a legal myth, isn’t it? You swear allegiance to God and the flag, don’t you? Plus, with a fundamentalist Christian in the White House, government will always be affected by religion, because it skews every decision he makes. So, to be honest, the statement made by Mr Al Qaeda seems to me to be a not very well veiled lie, given to avoid saying “Because we’re Muslim and they’re Christian” (you understand that this is just my opinion, of course). I’m rambling here aren’t I? Sorry about that. My original point, I think, is that people are people wherever you go, and they’re not generally so extreme as all that without a reason; why did Al Qaeda gain such popular support on a platform of hating the USA? I don’t think that religion is the reason, but rather the excuse (a little bit like the troubles in Northern Ireland).

  84. Custador–

    I do not believe in God, though the Republic, a creation of Reason and the Enlightenment, has my allegiance. President Bush isn’t a religious fundamentalist; he’s a Methodist. There is no state support of religion in the United States; that is explicitly forbidden by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.

    “why did Al Qaeda gain such popular support on a platform of hating the USA? I don’t think that religion is the reason”

    I think it is. Secular people have a difficult time wrapping their brains around religious fanaticism– many even believe religion is a conspiracy, an opiate used by those in power to command the masses. Many in America wonder why we can’t just agree to disagree with Islamic fanatics, in the Mickey Mouse commercial spirit of you drink Coke, I drink Pepsi. Agreeing to disagree — a key idea of liberalism — is precisely what thinkers like Sayyid Qutb dispute. You cannot openly disagree with the religious police in Saudi Arabia the same way you can openly disagree with a big bad evil fascist imperialist American Republican such as myself.

    Be sure to tell your friends from your enemies. Peace.

  85. @ jhbowden:

    Please don’t mistake me, I don’t think that Al Qaeda are in any way sane – actually, I regard religion in general as a mental illness which people contract as infants from their parents! If I told you I knew a guy who could flap his arms and fly, would you believe me without evidence? No? Well there you are then! It’s not “faith”, it’s credulous and gullible as far as I’m concerned! /rant

  86. Pingback: Q: What do terrorist groups, Socialist countries, and anti-American Europeans have in common? « Stay, Stay at Home My Heart

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  88. Who says Al Qaeda has popular support? I’ld like to see some opinion polls on people’s opinions of them. Cause so far, they’ve hit the western world 4 times (9/11, Madrid bombs, London bombs, and the German train bombs, correct me if I forgot one), to only hit an enemy 4 times means you have fuck all support. During any guerrilla war where the guerrillas have popular support, they hit the enemy countless times. In countries where they hit them more often, e.g. Algeria, while still not hitting them as often as in wars where one side has widespread support, any support they have is because of corrupt, anti-democratic governments and poverty.

  89. Pingback: There Shouldn’t be Anti-war Manifestations… « RLTJ’s Weblog

  90. Pingback: Soldier with flag « Chattering Monkey

  91. to the soldier: I don’t know what it was that you saw in your time of service but just remember that when in uniform you have no opinion, nor any right of dissent.

  92. The soldier in the picture isn’t who defaced the flag. At the time he was a recruiter in Lawrence, Kansas, which was suffering through antiwar protests. Protesters left the flag in a crumpled heap on the ground and this soldier collected it and turned it over to the local VFW for proper disposal.

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  99. The comments are really interisting… and insulting, too. I´m German and I have to admid that I´m a little bit offended by those kind of thoughts you write down. Germans are not what the state of America and your education system makes you believe. We are not “evil” neither Nazis. Most of us are pacifists and that´s it. The truth is often hided between the lines. Please think before you write and be self-critical thats just the way intelligent people do it. Please have a look on this map which shows the freedom of the press in the whole world.

    Thank you. By the way, the soldier makes us THINK and that counts.

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