Video showing brain washing of child causes blog comment storm

Originally posted on the below clip features a child being pressured into regurgitating what his mother wants him to say and think, on cue, about gentle Jesus, meek and mild.

If scenes of infant abuse offend you, please don’t watch. EDIT: It would seem the video has now been removed and posted again.

The terrifying thing about people like this is how offended they become when you point out to them what they are doing is wrong. (Read the comments below the original post).

The moment in the clip where the child forgets what line he’s been told to churn out; call and response brain washing, and he whispers off camera for a prompt, sickens me to the stomach.

As incapable of differentiating truth from fiction as his parents are incapable of teaching him about Þórr, Mithras, Zeus and every other born to a virgin, hero warrior god throughout ancient folklore and their striking similarities to Yahweh, this youngster will either grow out of such nonsense in his teens and forever resent his up-bringing, or (what’s more likely) he’ll become just like his parents – sprouting pups of his own, one day, they too destined for a life in the dark – blissfully unaware of the light of truth in the pages of every text book besides the only one they’ll ever learn to read.

Three of the last four American presidents were elected by people exactly like the women off camera in this clip; who from the looks of her blog is attempting to form a VenomFangX style “video ministry”. People who think the world was formed 6000 years ago, by an invisible man, who can suspend the laws of nature to suite their wants and desires, are – in short – running the world.

We have a lot of work to do, my free thinking, peace loving, awake and alive beautiful fellow human beings, so let’s get on with it! Write and tell this woman ( exactly where the law stands on the mental abuse of children. Tell her what will happen to her, under the letter of the law, if she continues to parade her child around as a marketing tool, selling whatever brand of fundamentalist lies she is peddling. Remind her there are international laws against the exploitation of minors and an army of people around the world determined to bring people like her, who use children for profiteering, to justice. This should not be allowed to continue any longer.


37 comments on “Video showing brain washing of child causes blog comment storm

  1. I have seen this video on “Godtube;”
    -and have we all not required prompting from our role models at one point or another in life? Ok now everyone line up like good children, and listen up! This little public display of anti-social behaviour that occurred is just another example of what God keeps expressing to us all. You lose – because you do not listen to God.
    As a survivor of extreme sexual abuse; the only goal that has kept me alive these past 42 of my 48 years, is my growing love for God.
    What I do not understand from your yap; is how you think you are able to correctly predict what a child is going to experience in their growing years, and further – did you research your stats before you made this prediction upon a single childs’ future?
    What the heck children, let’s take another step. If and when the reader goes back and rereads the above public “FLOG” – does it not sound like all those other cliches? Where did you learn to express yourself like that mister? You certainly sound like you have learned to recite from your role models example on how to express yourself. What was your grade on originality?

  2. Why is this an issue? Do we not have children in school that have to recite verbatim what the teacher wants to hear? How about college where it was a place for higher learning and now it is just more memorization. To the people who are outraged – If you have children or access to children do you not at some point talk about what you believe and teach them what you believe?

  3. Reciting multiplication times tables for the benefit of the math teacher, doesn’t carry the threat of burning in a pit of fire for all eternity for failing to understanding the numbers.

  4. Darren “Kyme” Nicholson:

    Are you deliberately avoiding the question, or where you planning on asking someone else what your opinion on child abuse is first?

    I think the fact that the clip has been removed speaks volumes about the mother’s commitment to “spreading” the “word”. She’s clearly far more comfortable preaching to the converted, of which you are surely one.

  5. Okay Mr. Gardner
    The lady you have decided to Flog has turned the video back on as of this afternoon – after my first post here, guess why? Certainly not because you asked her to, now did you? No that would be the mature thing to do – and that’s apparently not your style.
    It was because; we need people like you to make fools of yourself before God, so that He can make use you as a teaching tool for other more fortunate people to learn from. If you want to see the video here, do so, or you may go to – search under videos “The devil is Mad” and read the comments that follow. Maybe there’s something for the viewer to reflect upon before they are forced to feed upon your untruths and what I have had to address here today. You have Mr. Gardner been set up. Now take your bow.
    Welcome to S.W.A.R.M. Mr. Gardner. This is where we:
    Survive child abuse
    Witness the truth
    Advocate God’s love
    Record the outcome
    Mentor to those who have survived abuse.
    How is it that you are so sure that this young boy doesn’t know anything about mythology? Do you have inside knowledge of this boys’ personal life, that he does not know anything about these gods? Now that is a scary thought, that you have knowledge about a minor’s personal life. Does this mean you’re a peeping Jim?
    A 19 month old boy was murdered because he…? And you felt that a boy expressing his growing belief was more important to Flog than the murder of another child- hmmm, imagine that people.
    And why weren’t your concerns about this “abuse” you claim as happening brought to the proper front that you’re touting about in front of us here? Oh I get it now Folks there is a video here for him to play on our senses with.
    Oh by the way – God came to me as I was being sexually abused at the age of six. There was no preacher – teacher – or anyone I could trust in 1966 to tell. Is this the sort of personal experience you want to refer to as “converted” and just what is this coversion your cliched lable wants to point to?
    If you require a lesson in addressing issues, then you should have addressed my knowledge on such matters. I don’t have an opinion on child abuse – I have knowledgeable life experience. Is that good enough for you?
    I made an ass out of you and me by assuming that I would not have to express to you all in spelled out kindergarten english that I do know what child abuse is. Now go back and wash your bum before you try to cover it, because we can smmmelll yyyouuu.
    And if you really want me to pick you apart, well I’m up for the challenge – but it looks like you are standing alone here Mr Gardner, so maybe you had better just stand down.
    Mr. Gardner has thrown a juicy tid bit for us all to get titalated at today folks. He has certainly favors a sesationalist “National Enquirer” view here that has gained him some mature responses that don’t stand in his favor.

  6. I’m looking forward to Jim’s next comment, but all the same, the point is that Christians would feel pretty darn uncomfortable watching little Muslim toddlers committing their life to allah or swearing jihad. Is it not that hard to understand how secular humanists, atheists, and unbelievers, view this child’s ‘statement’ as brainwashing?

    I saw a great clip the other day from Bill Maher’s new movie Religulous. Bill Maher brings up Santa Clause, and the man says, “Oh I don’t believe in Santa Clause.” Bill Maher replies, “It is so ridiculous to believe ONE man flies around the world delivering presents, but to believe ONE guy hears everybody’s thoughts and responds to them, oh, that’s much more plausible.”

    I also don’t believe in Zeus, by the way.

  7. To Darren:

    It is horrible that you had to suffer abuse as a child. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy, nor abuse of any kind, be it mental, physical, sexual, or psychological. I wouldn’t dare compare one kind of abuse as worse than another, but the psychological abuse incurred by telling people they will burn in a fiery pit in hell unless they accept Jesus, is traumatic and threatening, and for a child who is still learning to differentiate imagination from reality, very real and very powerful.

    There is a lot of hurt that goes on in the world, but the only healing I’ve ever seen delivered has been by the hands of good people, of all colors and genders and faiths, and no faiths at all. When I critically examined religion, one of the hardest things for me to understand why I was still a good person without religion. Then I realized, I was a good person all along ~ I chose to be kind and loving because that is me — that is what I respect and treasure about people. I hope for you that you will meet even more good people in your life, and heal from the past.

  8. Thanks Kimberley:
    Your response to this is well recieved with myself and my peers.
    What happened to me with God is an example of truth. In my family there was no church or God, we (like yourself) were just good basic people who did our best to make sure that our family wasn’t constructed with that ever-present “bully” attitude that invades our societys’ civilization all the time.
    At the time of my abuse, and since then, I have endeavored to point out any kind of abuse and direct the abusers to a better way.
    The simple fact that God came to me when it was actually happening stands firm in His truth, and it is my faith in Him that is the direction I’m pointing out here – not to be sensational for a few commercial moments before we have to take a break for a few short messages from someone elses sponsor.
    I WAS NOT coached in my faith – I stand alone without a backup band to parade me in front of others.
    Theresa Croft just wanted to share our joy in witnessing someone (her son here) reach the goal that all people are supposed to accomplish in their life. And it does not matter which religion God directs you to follow, if you truly seek Him His way – you win, because you listen to Him.
    I do not “belong to a church” – I belong to God. My witness for Him includes how “religions” promote abuse, and there are so many abuses to lable that I’m only left with pointing and directing others to where God is.
    The last church I left had the audacity to ask me to give them 2 thousand dollars, even if I had to cash advance from my credit card. They want to replace the perfectly good church we have with a new shiny one – just keeping up with the Joneses. Their new church “project” is experiencing some stumbling blocks.
    You will have to forgive Mr. Gardner this morning for not appearing as of yet – he’s not feeling up to par; because he is experiencing some physical discomfort, along with some emotional anguish that he doesn’t understand yet.

  9. I think you’ll find Mr Darren “Kyme” Nicholson that the delay in my replies has more to do with the rotation of the Earth than my emotional anguish, but that’s hardly the issue.

    What is the issue here is that a little boy was filmed by his mother being coached as to what to say when asked about God.

  10. To Darren “Kyme” Nicholson’s longer reply (above):

    I never suggested that the sort of abuse taking place against this woman’s child was on a the same scale which you suffered, for which I am very happy you have found a support group to turn to when you need it.

    I also suffered the kind of mental abuse the child in this video suffered as a boy myself and I often turn to the support group of my fellow free thinkers to remind me I’m not alone in my fears of people like the woman in this video.

    I went through a Catholic education system ran by the kinds of people who very much sided with Karol Wojtyla, in his desire to rewind certain aspects of Vatican Counsel II, and later attended a school ran by Sister Mary, who’s particular brand of corporal punishment, arbitrarily meted out to anyone ‘stupid’ enough to catch her eye, saw me quaking in my boots at even being in the same room as a cannabis joint, when I many years later went to college.

    The Catholic guilt embedded into my consciousness clung on for dear life until I was well into my twenties, when if challenged I would spout exactly the sort of passive aggressive nonsense your lady friend in the video here is teaching her son to regurgitate. That’s why I know intimately the challenges he faces. Not because I know him personally, but because I understand the contrast between life inside a Christian upbringing and the boundless beauty of waking up to the myriad of connections between me, you, everyone and everything in the universe and how much more staggering those truths are to behold, when viewed without the blinkers of arrogant, religious certainty.

    I am glad you feel that I have made an ass of myself in front of your God – I’ve been waiting to find out what He thinks about me for long enough as it is. That you feel so well placed to speak in his stead you should proclaim yourself “up for the challenge” brings a glow to my day and a much needed thread of comedy to the proceedings.

  11. Mr.Gardner:

    I live in the eastern time zone of Canada. It’s 10:00 am here, and I know what time It is where you are. You’re still late by our standard of watchkeeping.

    Just a second here, I have to go back and witness something that was said before, I’ll be right with you. Yep – I was correct – This youngster asked his mother 2 times for the guideance he was seeking to help him achieve what he believes is right for him to accomplish for himself. There is nothing in this childs’ body language to indicates a demonstration of 3 c’s: confusion, conflict, or coercion. His mother is the one who had to be prompted by him to help him.

    Now it is my turn in time to offer you thanks for fianally responding in an original concise manner as to what your opinion is without all those cliches you’ve been coached to rhyme off all your life. Your final sentence is very refreshing, and we will record your efforts accomplished within the last 24 hours of this debate.

    Here and now – done.

  12. Which part of “arrogant religious certainty” did you interpret as “refreshing”?

    What do you mean by “all your life”? Did you even read my reply, or are you trying to bait me?

    Are we to take “here and now – done” as an intention to return and actually answer the original question, or are you just gone for good – like all the other religious loonies who came here expecting an easy win?

  13. Mr. Gardner:

    I said in writing I said that; “I made an ass out of you and me by assuming…” &”I’m up to the challenge…” Where in those expressed thoughts are you given the opportunity to comprehend that I was speaking otherwise? If I say God – I mean God – and if I say: you, me, or I – that’s what I mean, and nothing else. You express yourself in a tone that notes to your’re more at ease expressing yourself verbally than in writing, and if we were having this conversation verbally, I would likewise remind you of what I said – but this way you can’t say I said something that I didn’t. Are you used to debating your short term memory like this all the time Mr. Gardner?

    I see by your last return here that you went back to your practiced routine – such a nice comfort zone for those who can’t get past the abuse they experienced. People are supposed to grow by learning that other people made some stupid choices that involves each afflicted individual – that’s you and me in our life experience, but it’s not supposed to stop us from developing into constructive humans. By allowing ourselves to to cow tow to someones elses beliefs is objectionable – we both agree here. That’s why I didn’t stall in my personal development.

    Stick to your 1:17 pm post – it is your best one so far – where you expressed your opinion plain and effectively without raising a “Hulla ba Loo” (that’s a cliche’). There is no tolerance for those in this world who incite others to action when you’re not willing to participate in what you start. You call upon others to do your job? I’m doing mine by my will, and my will happens to involve God. When I stand up to advocate in concern for how someone else is being treated in a public display – because you certainly did not give them an opportunity to speak in their defense before you smacked them with your type of closed fist – I always let an opponet have their say openly (as yours on Aug12) before I remind them of fair play rules.

    You’re taunting, inciting others to do your bidding, egging your followers on this way. You mister are what is refered to in all circles as a bully.

    Say what now?

  14. Your problem is you’re all broadcast and no receive. You project your own insecurities onto other people in the same way we all do, except because you do it with a frontal lobe full of magic, you’re convinced it’s a personal gift or some kind of intuition given to you by an exterior observer as a reward for your private thoughts and actions, when in reality it’s just another of the mind’s self deluding parlour tricks, which religion so deftly hijacks.

    The virus of religious faith is perhaps the most fascinating part of the story, which describes the emotional evolutionary transition from Homo Erectus to Homo Sapian Sapian; that which separates us from the animals. Simply put, it’s an irrational fear of the dark, extrapolated out across centuries of myth, written by the victors. What Bronowski called, another step in the ascent of man. But it is demonstrably not, as you would insist, the way the truth and light through which all questions may be answered and filtered, no matter what the premise.

    I’ve met, butted up against, tolerated, spoken with and ultimately befriended people like you before – in other words, you shouldn’t feel too bad about how you might feel upon reading your own diatribe back to yourself when (if) you do one day wake up. You are quite right to feel anger towards people like me who are, at the end of the day (no matter what the spin) genuinely telling you in no uncertain terms you are wrong. There is no easy way to swallow that. But you will also be right to feel perhaps silly or even angry at yourself when (if) you turn around your gleeful assertions and view them for what they are.

    As for the accusation that I am a bully – I don’t know. You may be right. Am I tired of living in a world where pious morons can do anything they want, so long as they can find justification for it in scripture? Yes. Do I feel like shaking people who fall back on bronze age myths to allow themselves to flatly ignore the truth? Absolutely. Do I imagine for one single second that you will ever understand that? Yes, I do. I have great faith that people like you will one day wake up. In fact I live my life optimistic that it is only a matter of time; ‘when’ rather than ‘if’.

    That’s why I and billions of people like me around the world do what we do and say what we say, whenever we meet people like you. Because we trust that the unpleasant, brown turd of unfiltered truth will always float to the top of the tank for all to see, given the passage of time, no matter how much paper people like you put down before you flush. It’s the lore of the universe. The beautiful, inescapable truth of life as a sentient, super evolved animal with a disproportionately large adrenal gland, fighting its way through these infinitesimally tiny distortions in space time, we laughingly refer to as consciousness.

    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” – Bertrand Russell

  15. When I was a child, I wished to die that I may ask God how the universe worked.

    As a teenager, I wished to live because I felt science had answers to the puzzle of the natural world.

    As a young adult, I had a firm grasp on cells, DNA, genetics, and natural selection.

    As I am here and now, there are days when I can peer at my hand, or a leaf, and imagine the magnification, from surface to cell, from cell to nucleus, from nucleus to chromosome, from chromosome to gene, from gene to dna (molecule), to atom, to quark. And all the glorious beauty of biology and chemistry is right there, and I understand. No God, Santa Clause, or tooth fairy is necessary for these things to work.

  16. Darren, you are obviously very convinced, from your personal experiences, that God exists. I doubt anything Jim says will deter you.

    Frankly, I’m not exactly sure what you’re arguing in your last post. Blah blah blah, you don’t like Jim.

    I’ll bring up my point from before: Christians would feel pretty darn uncomfortable watching a little toddler commit his life to Muslim Allah or swearing jihad. Is it not that hard to understand how secular humanists, atheists, and unbelievers, view the statement of such a young child as brainwashing?

  17. Although I couldn’t agree more with you if I tried Kim, I fear you might be wasting your text. Some people refuse to listen. I don’t think he’s coming back – although I’d be delighted if he did.

  18. First of all, please accept my apology Folks for being tardy in my response to Mr. Gardner’s 4:46 & 6:45 posts from yesterday. And I really do have to apologize for missing the 4:46 post completely, it seems that there’s one of those ever present internet back loop cycles working off the system search here. ITs please!

    And we truly missed on this exchange, so I’ll forge ahead in all due respect. I am not trying to “bait” you – it is not my intention to incite a level of discussion here that demeans any of us – ok? Now please stand down when that part of your ego wants to raise it’s ugly head. I’m not here to browbeat you into submission for the pleasure of my beliefs. I’m not built that way.

    I was asked to come here to your arena and help other people understand how and why it is inportant for anyone of us to communicate their beliefs in: an original, concise, and in a mannered form that is acceptable for all to feel comfortable with without that ever present emotion that you have refered to yourself as “…super evolved animal with a disproportionately large adrenal gland.” Like I have already expressed; “…you have Mr. Gardner been set up…,” for the purpose of educating the better future of people who come forward in a time of their personal need. And yes, God is here as the driving force of our beliefs. And yes, I did say beliefs.

    As a point in correction, please presume that your point of view is correct – from where you stand – and that your belief is a valid point for all of us to consider.

    When you came forward on August 12th to express a position of “?” (for lack of better expression), you left people out here who do not understand how or where you are coming at them from in your approach to this issue, because we are trying to teach that tolerance for others (including abusers) is a stepping stone for all of us to reach for in the quest of better personal development.

    We appreciate the facts of your person; that you are assertive, well versed in what you believe, and are able to articulate yourself to the point that we believe you can be approached to converse with us further.

    I was refering to your last sentence on Aug 14ths 1:37pm post as “refreshing” – because it is; short, concise, and original without all the practiced cliches you have been taught to practice all of your life. Is that close enough?

    In interest to your carrer and how you do want to stand out amongst that billions of your peers, there is an understanding which is accepted as; your desire to demonstrate your portion of the adrenal gland in an alpha male role, and to forward this projection of yourself so that your view as leader for us all is what we are supposed to follow.

    Am I correct thus far? Or is there more of an opportunity for me to further capitulate my understanding to your view?

    before I retire our view for today; please direct me to where and how I led you to believe that I am spouting scriptures?. All I have demonstrated here as Kimberly has reinforced for me; is my affifmation to my personal faith, which also includes a fair percentage of this world population we share our existance with. I have already sided with Mr. Gardner by my own expression that I do not follow a church religion, where did you miss that folks?

    The openly accepted opinion offerd to view here is what? People; please understand that I am just one of the most openly accepting people on this planet; but if someone doesn’t accept the responsibility of the soapbox they are given to use by abusing it(bullying) with wanton and abandoned fear “the rights of all,” then they truly become responsible for their actions.

    We as professionals were mentored, and we mentor our juniors. As parents, what is our role? We are taught and we teach what we are taught. Mr. Gardner, were you taught to be a bully by your parents or your school? It’s not that you are a bully, it’s about how you are presenting yourself and how the people who you want to read your blog percieve your message.

    What if some person were to read just your first entry on this subject; without continuing to the end of all of our discussion here, and were ignorantly incited to do harm to the Croft family, and it then became known that the motivation for this act was your opening entry on this subject. Can you project in your imagination the coming distress you and yours would have to experience in dealing with all the following reprecussions your family would encounter?

    In today’s closing I want to impart with you this knowledge. My little guy (5 now) told me when he was three that his Daddy was going to play with toys in heaven. Ryan didn’t know anything about God, let alone anything about Heaven. His Dad is dying of lung cancer. This diagnosis was made when Ryan was one. I did not have anythinbg to do with Ryan’s life until he was 2 1/2. I’m “riddled me this” from your view Mr. Gardner. But from my point, it is just another opportunity for me to witness to.

    Good night fellow humans

  19. Good morning- started here at 2:45am my time – glad that you’re delighted that I’m back.

    A little yawny eyed here; I usually get four hours down time, but I think most of the kinks are worked out.

    This past week has been a marathon for me – I was born with poor eyes; an affiction that grows with each passing year, and these past few years in front of any monitor is staring to influence my stanima. Having to deal with the unproductive attitude of Ryan’s Mom; has really been emotionaly draining. Her infantile behavior I can endure, but it is affecting Ryan emotionaly, and his health is far more important than the baggage she drags behind her to use and throw in peoples face when her insecuruities flood her in “her” moments of defence or attack. Analizing her takes up too much “text” for anyone’s interest and our level of educated intelligence already demonstrated here does not require us to over empheasize. These factors in my personal life are starting to be reflected here through my temperment.

    I am aagain publicly sorry for promoting any inference of dislike towards you Mr.Gardner, that is definately not my intention here. I do not dislike Mr. Gardner. I dislike to misunderstand (recognize)people’s true good/human/bad values. What I truly dislike to the point of hatred are the mistakes I have misunderstood in the past, which retarded my maturity. That used to really bother me – to a point of distraction that for a time would have been the finish point of my development.

    The luggage I was always trying to handle without learning how to assign proper ownership to became way to much for me. So I learned to write claim checks for each: shopping bag, suitcase, and trunk – some luggage sets too! – every other soul decided I must carry for them. I put them in the care of the baggage clerk, and each time I find the owners I give them the claim.

    Thank you Kimberly for stepping back in and bringing your personal observation of the “macro-middle-Micro” forward; I do see the validity of such sight, in fact you have the proportion of this formula (forum) that compliments another analytical aspect that shouldn’t be ignored here. A trinity of science fact, our developing trinty? That universal trinity we question as humankind likes to fight about. Mr. Gardner brings the qualities Of the warrior hero/cause to pursue/victor in perspective here

    I do note publicly that his other endeavors away from this type of forum are well articulated/unbias/and valid for other people to refer upon as their influenced opinion.

    Gone for breakfast – not fishing. COL?

  20. There’s a lot to pick up on and expand here, but I’m having a busy day trying to find out what the garage have done with my car. Just wanted to leave some sort of reply so as not to appear ignorant. Like Arnold, I’ll be back. Stay tuned.

  21. To Darren “Kyme” Nicholson:

    Is there another forum / blog / arena which you would prefer to continue this conversation in? Is there a site you would like me to join and give my point of view? Can you introduce me there?

    I’d prefer to branch this out than get bogged down in a long off-topic thread to this original blog entry.

    Can I also just add that I am not interested in discussing superstitions or irrational fears with victims of abuse – so if that is the main focus of this third party to which you refer, when you mentioned people who are “watching my progress” – I’ll have to respectfully dip out, because I wouldn’t want to be misconstrued as being someone who takes the piss out of people who can’t emotionally handle it. That’s not cool. We all have issues and I’m not a counsellor, but I am more than up for rational debate with people who aren’t going to flip out of control and harm themselves or someone else.

  22. Reading this interchange has been healthy practice for my mind in two ways: First, I’ve been forced to concentrate intensely on the issue, especially in the presence of verbose writing, which serves (quite often) as a derailing tactic. I get tired of the endless clause upon clause upon clause. This isn’t Pride or Prejudice; use a period. Secondly, this has been healthy practice for taking something that sounds extremely intelligent, and pulling apart the words to expose faulty logic. Or misdirection.

    Oh, and let’s throw in a third thing: Darren, you just … can’t use the coincidence of three as a way to justify trinity. That would be like everytime I see a grouping of five, it justifies pentagrams, or everytime I see a group of two, it justifies the spaghetti monster’s eyeball stalks.

    Hopefully, in conclusion: I brought up my scientific perspective of the world because while I cannot see my cells, or touch my DNA, those things are how life really DOES work. Because I attended a K-8 religious school, that knowledge was discouraged and in some forms, denied. I was encouraged to just accept God’s mystery, fate, ways, whatever. I quite stubbornly asserted that God gave us brains to think, I quite adamantly refused to accept horrible lies like AIDS is a punishment, and I quite fervently believed I could find a cure for cancer if I just knew more. (Hey, I was a kid, and I still think I’ll see a cure in my lifetime.)

    Because I had religious parents, and was in a religious school, I was slowly conditioned to be a good little Christian and keep my mouth shut, but I never stopped thinking about all the contradictions. God is love, but I’m supposed to hate people different than me. God forbids murder, yet chooses, of all the posssible forms of salvation, that his son has to be murdered? There couldn’t have been another way? I mean, he’s freaking GOD!

    Bottom line is this kid would believe in Santa Claus if he heard reindeer on the roof. He’s just a boy. If he lived elsewhere in the world, he’d accept the god of a different religious majority. The problem is not WHAT god the kid’s been primed to accept, the problem is that the kid has been encouraged towards non-think. Just feel. Feel Jesus. That’s … cultlike. I didn’t feel religion was a cult when I was a kid, but what choice did I have — love God, or die in a fiery pit. Yeah, lemme think about that for a millisecond.

    Darren wants to pose elaborate hypotheticals of Jim’s opinions leading to harm and disaster, so I’ll pose the same back: How would Darren feel, if he knew exposing people to religion might lead to other horrible instances, like animal cruelty (hey, humans got dominion and animals got no soul, right?) genocide, (Ahem ), suicide (if you’re gay, god hates you anyway, might as well go to hell early), child molestation, etc.

    Sigh, but you know, I don’t feel like any progress is being made in this thread. Darren obviously doesn’t see this video in the inflammatory light Jim and I do. Unless some new minds come to the table, I think we’ve said all we have to say.

  23. Yep:

    And don’t forget to tell your little ones as you try to clean up your messes when they start to exibibit all the other examples of society’s brainwashing, that you were only trying to do the best your abilities allowed you, but you didn’t move forward to teach them any different because you weren’t willing to.

    I not here to say you’re wrong in what you have to say on this issue. I came to say – It’s presented as one sided, BIASED

    At least I have learned to offer a palm branch and show that there are people out here that want issues addressed evenly, UNBIASED

    Mr. Gardner should be happy that this view has been brought to his page, but like I have said in a few other ways, it looks like it’s his view that counts only, and if I don’t like it? Don’t come here Darren, we’re not matured to understand another’s view.

    My opinion is this

    Non Christian people teach their children guns and violence are wrong – But those children watch society using these tools to what?

    Just because you had a bad life experience to, you feel that all you have to do is wave the war banner and cry “Charge!”

    Brainwashing in any form is wrong, I agree. To recognize it is good. To develope and implement ways to teach others from pursuing it is good. To expect people to accept an issue only as you see it is brainwashed brainwashing. Each time I came forward with the diplomatic skills best to my ability, your lables:

    pious moron
    religious loonie
    scripture spouting

    your lables – your form of brainwashing.

    Yes there are all these out here – and we are ashamed of them, it doesn’t mean that we all are them. Some, apparently very few of us, want to say, “the pot is calling the kettle black.”
    Wash your butt before you try to cover it
    stop doing what you say they are doing
    Do this, then you can address this constructively.

    Thank you – there are more important issues in my life to address – and that is helping people who want to learn what I have to say before they make decisions for themselves, and they all involve the welfare of their children, and they are not all for Christians or atheists faiths.

    You didn’t take the time, so you crucify, ’cause that’s your easy way.

    Good luck with that.

  24. Darren. You’ve got to get over the idea that the reason we disagree is because we don’t understand your position. We do. That is your biggest problem. We regular normal folks are only too familiar with the demonstrably false claims you cling to as unshakeable truths. That is why we fundamentally disagree with you. It is the same reason why you can not, despite the best part of 4 days trying, answer any of the questions we have asked of you.

    When you remove from the religious position that which has been proven time and again to be, at best, blatantly untrue and, in the extreme, dangerous and immoral, you’re not left with an awful lot to defiantly defend – and yet because of a series of emotionally traumatic events in your life, which any of us would happily do anything to undo, this is what you are doing. You are effectively telling us you are freed by your enslavement to something which can be PROVEN to be nothing more than an elaborate and extremely interesting story, but a story nevertheless.

    We are not philistines. We understand the colossal human achievements which, in ancient times, were largely accomplished by those in religious orders. The venerable Bede, for example, a famous monk from my part of the world, who’s rebuilding and restructuring agenda in the dark ages, after the Romans abandoned Britain, brought the sciences (such as they were at the time) to Britain. But we have moved on from those days when only holy men were entitled to learn of the chemistry which made the forging of bronze commonplace.

    The tiny steps towards today’s world, since those times, saw revolutionary changes in society take place despite of and in many cases in violent opposition to the objections of the terminally religious. Galileo Galilei – threatened with excommunication for proving the planets orbited of the sun and that the sun itself was but one of billions like it in a colossal universe. Blasphemy against God, punishable by death. But he stood by his claims until the very last moment at which it became impossible for him to deny the pope’s demands for a retraction. Not because the pope won the argument with measured counter-reason, but because the tyranny of man lands in no more fertile soil than in the mythical garden of Eden.

    As for the accusation of regurgitation, I can assure you as sure as I am my father’s son, that my words are my own, just as they are the independently arrived upon thoughts of many billions like me around this world we share. If it is all you need to tell yourself that I am a plagiarist and therefore wrong on everything I say, go ahead and suck on that pacifier. Mummy will be along to change your nappy and bring up your windy pops shortly.

    If, on the other hand, you would first like to show me and the others reading this the courtesy of at least using a spell checker, before you issue forth your grammarless, circular non-logic, pretty please with a cherry on top, at least attempt to answer your own questions in private, before you ask abstract inconsequential ones of me – for which, I suggest, even my most detailed of replies would likely fall on deaf ears, irregardless of your capacity to understand the difference between opinion and fact.

  25. Yes, like you said, you’re right

    Good luck with that.

    I do apologize for the grammar.

  26. Hello!
    Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
    PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language ;)
    See you!
    Your, Raiul Baztepo

  27. The issue is not teaching religious belief or math tables, but child abuse. There is absolutely NO evidence of any sort of abuse. The mother never raises her voice and prompts the child with a great deal of gentleness, pride, and love in her voice. The little boy is happy and she does not push him to continue to “perform” when he decides to wander off. There are no threats made to the child. While he is probably not learning critical thinking, which is too bad as it would most likely make him a better, not a worse Christian, his mother is teaching him her values, values I am sure she believes will help him become a good man.

    I think folks should do some research on the criteria that have to be present to call a method of teaching information about the world brainwashing. Some of the defining charactericts aare the attempt to break the individual using violence, threats of violence, forced isolation, sleep deprivation,etc. Once broken, the individual is the indoctrinated (again with threats of violence, etc.) in the new world view preferred by their captors. There are parents who do engage in this behavior. It is a terrible form of child abuse and very damaging to the child’s psyche. I just don’t see that in what appears to be a home video about the child’s baptism (?).

    While a deeply religious and spriritual person, I myself belong to no organized religion. I respect the beleifs of others so long as they do not advocate violence and cruelty to those who do not share their beleifs. In other words, I have no religious axe to grind. As a parent, I worked very hard to teach my sons to be decent, kind, generous, caring, honorable men. I am happy to report that both of them are well into their journey toward those ends. I also taught them to think for themselves and to question views that ran contrary to common sense and humanity.

    I was brainwashed as a child, but somehow saw through it. I guess I was born with both feet firmly planted in reality. Even so, it did me great harm and was so bad my therapist has compared my childhood to being a POW and diagnosed me with severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Even now, a loud noise causes me to “jump” with such force it is painful. If there where videos of my childhood, they would certainly not reflect the kind of emotions reflected in this child’s mother or the relaxed, normal behavior of her child.

    There are cults, religious organizations, the KKK, patriot and militia folks and mentally ill parents indoctrinating their children into false worldviews in the US and, for that matter, all over the world. The consequences of their brainwashing appeared in the Oklanhoma City bombing, the murder of abortion providers, and the attack on the World Trade Center. As I right this, thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children are suffering in prison, subjected to the worst kind of torture. Isn’t all of this more important than that video?

  28. Well…this just erased my response.

    I watched the video several times. The mother’s voice, as she prompts her chld, is gentle, soft and loving. The child appears to be healthy and normal and the mother stops when he grow tired of performing for the camera. Yes, he is being taught to be Christian. BUT all parents teach their children their values, many with great cruelty.

    I myself belong to no organized religion, but am a deeply spriritual person. I raised my sons, as best as I could, to be decent, kind, honorable, brave men. So far, they are both following their separate paths on that journey. I am very proud of them. I also taught them critical thinking, to think for themselves, particularly when presented with ideas that were counter to common sense and the values I had taught them.

    I was the chld of a brainwasher. It was so bad, my therapist has compared me with a POW and tells me I have many of the same emotional issues, including Post Traumatic Stress disorder. WIth a lot of therapy, which I continue to attend, and some medication, some of those symptoms are gone. Unfortunately, loud noises still cause me to jerk so hard it hurts. Had I been videotaped you would have seen a child with huge circles under her eyes (sleep deprivation is one of the methods of brainwashing), profoundly nervouse and terrified, awaiting the prompts of a parent who definitely would not have sounded like the one on your video.

    Brainwashing involves violence and the threat of violence, sleep deprivation, isolation, attacks on the individuals self esteem and sense of self. It’s purpose is to break the individual and remold him or her to follow whatever worldview is followed by his or her torturer. We do have cults, fringe religions, and political groups (KKK, Patriot Movt, Militia) who do indoctrinate their members and their members chilren. These children go to camps designed to “teach” them hatred. They are punished severely when they fail and some grow up to commit crimes…blowing up federal buildings, killing abortion providers, murdering people of color, gays, and anyone else who isn’t just like them. These are the people that worry me, as well as their counterparts in the rest of the world.

    As people we all teach our children our values. It is not at all impossible to belong to an organized religion and teach your child in the same way, particularly if you belong to a progressive church, and, in fact, many churches teach in this manner. I recognize that my values clash with the values of many, many other parents, but this is a pluralistic, relatively free society. Would I prefer all children were taught the way I taught my sons? Of course…but only because I believe and have evidence that critical type of thinking develops children into the kind of people who leave the world a better place than when they entered it.

  29. Well, if you’re quite finished, Sharon. Whether you like it or not normal people do see right through the brainwashing techniques that this video demonstrates. The off-camera voice asks the boy, “How did you become a Christian?” to which he replies with an entirely pre-programmed response, no child his age free to arrive at a set of conclusions about the nature of religious faith could possibly have arrived upon by his own fruition.

    If he had replied with something like, “Well I read some books, weighed up the odds, thought about different world theologies and decided North American Evangelical Protestantism was the best way for me to seek enlightenment”, then their might be a debate to be had about his unprompted willingness to coincidentally embrace exactly the same religion as his mother.

    This is not what is happening in this video. What is blatantly happening, for all the world to see–obvious to everyone except people like you–is a child regurgitating words put into his mouth by people who are as disinterested in the true path towards enlightenment as they are blasé about the emotional consequences of lying to their own offspring.

    5 year old boys do not “confess to the Lord” of their own accord. 5 year old boys do not sing, “I love you Jesus with all my heart” unprompted. The harsh realities of the world will come crashing down around the ears of our babies all too soon enough, without making it a million times harder for them to deal with, by having to filter their own intuition and vital human consciousness through the right of centre political theology of “saved and therefore blameless” imbecilic, passive aggressive, arrogant certainty.

    Her soft tone and well-meaning attitude doesn’t make what she is doing OK. Her arrogance might be absentminded, it doesn’t make it any less damaging upon the boy’s ability to think for himself. She is stifling his own creativity before he has learned how to think about the world for himself. This is the very definition of brain washing you so vehemently insist can only be defined by violence and threat. But what could be more violent than the threat of eternal damnation in the fires of hell, particularly to the mind of a child who takes it literally, I can barely imagine.

    I am sorry that you have had challenging and disturbing experiences of your own, but you of all people should be able to see this softly spoken approach is just as insidious as methods which cajole by force. It is the “we are on the good side, they are on the bad side” close-mindedness of it which is so disgusting, just as it is the very thing about these methods of brainwashing which will eventually spin back upon the instructor, if and hopefully when this boy grows up to see himself on-line, being paraded like a trophy, by a mother who prides herself on how her methods have made him so like every other child of morons, despite that he was born a free individual with a mind of his own—now erased and replaced with someone else’s bronze-age guesswork on the nature of reality.

    It’s a sick, immoral joke and there is nothing anyone can say to justify it. But the literalists who, as you say, commit heinous crimes in the name of their faith, are no different to the softly-softly, white, middle-class, soccer mom, home-school Palin voters. They are both as mad as each other. One preaches “be like us, or suffer for eternity” fear theology, while the other preaches hate theology—towards anyone different to them. That they do it in a more direct way–with attacks on skin colour and heritage doesn’t change the fact that both brands of intolerance are ignorance by any other name.

  30. “That they do it in a more direct way–with attacks on skin colour and heritage doesn’t change the fact that both brands of intolerance are ignorance by any other name. ”

    Well said Jim.

  31. Okay Jim I’ll bite on this one, what exactly is the ‘true path of enlightment’ you claim religious mothers are ‘disinterested’ in?

  32. Michael. Do you think this mother is interested in her son receiving a balanced education on matters of spirituality and personal faith? No, neither do I.

  33. Hi Jim:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, and I will stand corrected.

    Do mothers brainwash their children to clean up after themselves by nagging? Do we learn to do this just to keep the naggin’ Mom out of our hair?

    I’m ready to explore your views, and learn to understand you Jim. Can you find some other examples of your beliefs on this topic for us to discuss? I don’t think that it is fair for us to just accept a single “incident,” and say that it is just one way.

    What you have brought to us here is an important subject, and worth the debate. I hope that you will continue being a gentleman about this, with the assurance that I will continue not to BT you sir.

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